Are You Stuck?

May 24, 2014 by

chapterI get a lot of emails and posts from former Jehovah’s Witnesses. It is no wonder. We now have over 5,000 (as of yesterday) registered members who have signed up to get an email notification every time I post on this blog.

They all seem to be asking the same questions. Everyone seems to have this huge struggle with what has been done to them. They have so many unanswered questions because their “certainty” in the group is no longer valid. They know that what the Watchtower teaches is falsehood and so they scramble looking for a replacement “certainty” elsewhere.

They ask questions like: “Doug what should I believe?”

These are grown people who have been sold down the river once. They KNOW they’ve been sold down the river and yet, the minute they escape from one oppressive ideology they immediately begin looking to me or someone else for “all the answers”. Having been in a position of relative certainty for so long they ache and long for someone to just tell them what the real truth is and put away all of their fears, doubts and concerns.

I know what all of this is like. I struggled for decades with the fear, anger and endless questions that have resulted from my being raised in the Jehovah’s Witnesses.

This blog was a huge part of my recovery as a former JW. It was an intense personal journey into my own motivations, fears and doubts in leaving the Jehovah’s Witnesses. It has taken me to the very core of what it means to be a Jehovah’s Witness and I’ve made it back with my family and sanity intact.

I’m happier and more fulfilled now than I ever was while in the Jehovah’s Witnesses. Why? Because even though you THOUGHT you knew what the truth was about God and His purposes you never knew for certain if you were actually in His good graces. You never knew if you were GOOD ENOUGH to live through Armageddon. It was always a moving target for most of us. So really, the certainty even inside the cult was merely an illusion.

The thought occurred to me today that it is high time that we all stop whining, fretting, and handwringing, and simply get on with our lives.

So the question remains: Are you stuck?

If you are like most former JW’s you are stuck because you persist in focusing on what has happened in your past instead of creating your future!

This is one of the most important questions we can answer as former Jehovah’s Witnesses.

Yes we’ve had a tough time. Yes we’ve had to overcome a lot of personal difficulty to get to where we are today. Perhaps we’re still dealing with that. But what are you doing with your new life NOW?

Are you stuck dwelling on the past and simply watching mental reruns of all of the horrible things that you’ve seen and possibly been subjected to while you were in the Jehovah’s Witnesses?

Break free now! Get started with your new life beyond the Jehovah’s Witnesses. Instead of dwelling on things that have already happened (and that you can do nothing about) why aren’t you creating a new life, new memories and new positive and empowering relationships?

What are you doing right now to create your new life? Have you made new friends? Have you embraced a more positive and constructive belief system that serves you instead of the other way around? Are you reading any self help books? Are you seeing a therapist? These are all things that you can do right now to improve your quality of life and mental state!

It has been said that the best revenge is massive success! I’m enjoying that now and many of my former family and friends are painfully aware of just how successful I have become. I enjoy the heck out of that. As a matter of fact, I revel in it! In spite of all the naysayers and hate mongers of my former life, I made it in style! How did I do it? I changed my outlook! I read books by people who have a positive view of the world and themselves! I changed the way I looked at things and the things I looked at changed! I decided to stop looking backward and start looking forward!

This is my message to all of the mean spirited, evil and vindictive Jehovah’s Witnesses who judged me and wronged me in my past and the few who persist in trying to cast the Watchtower’s shadow of guilt, hate, and intolerance in my direction even to this day:

“Yes you hurt me. Yes it kept me mentally imprisoned for a very long time. However I decided to move beyond being stuck thinking about all of the negative things that happened in my past. I’m moving on with my life without you or people like you in it. I’m happier, healthier, and a better person not just in spite of what you and the organization did to me but because you mistreated me. I will never mistreat anyone like you’ve mistreated me. I will always seek the positives in my life and the lives of others. I will no longer judge others as you have judged me. I will show unconditional love instead of putting conditions on everyone and everything. Instead of tearing other people down I will build them up! Instead of looking to you or anyone else for all the answers, I’m finding my own answers! Starting right NOW I’m writing my new chapter of life and guess what? You’re not in it!”

Start writing your new chapter! Do it now. Do it today!

Your new highly fulfilled and positive life is waiting for you. So what are you waiting for?

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106 Comments

  1. John

    Allow great memories to overtake the bad ones beginning today.

  2. Debb

    “Why don’t you move on?” – Cedars’ vlog no. 19

  3. Exactly Debb!

    Doug

  4. Love this John!

  5. Debb

    thank you Cedar for holding out your hand!!!!!!!

  6. Karyne. Jacobs

    All I can say are two things. First, Doug Shields, you are indeed correct. Living Well is indeed the Best Revenge!
    Second, “Be the change you wish to see in the world.” – Gandhi

    Agápe,
    Karyne.

  7. One of the perks of being the head honcho on this blog is that I can make the appropriate changes when needed. 🙂

  8. karyne jacobs

    I appreciate the ‘correction’. He! He! However, I thank you.
    Karyne.

  9. rikos

    yes i agree with Doug. i spend 40 years of my life,but now i feel so happy that finally i am free from JW.. when i open my eyes every morning i am thinking how happy i am that i have the privilege and the strength to attempted to research the religion i was serve for many years and to be free from any religion deception. i feel privilege because many millions still serving 8 corrupted man who claiming they claiming God talking to them.
    i believe their is plenty of .information out there for those who want just to search and stop investing any more time of their files to a corrupted corporation. still you can be a nice citizen of your country, helping others,do things you never do it before because the watchtower told you no to approach anything out side of the organization.thinks like astronomy how many witnesses we know have openly study astronomy. history of religious,Greek philosophy, ancient civilizations, and so many. why? because those evil people platen fear, and guild in our minds not even to think about looking.

  10. Iown Mylife

    How did this happen, why did this happen, how can I keep this from ever happening again. Those sorts of questions are what I think about and that I need to resolve. But at the same time, I’ve moved on, in a way. I don’t have much confidence in myself, though. That is one of the big injuries.

  11. You’re most welcome Karyne!

  12. Rikos,

    Such a fantastic observation! We are trained to give up on our dreams because they are “evil” and a “trick of Satan”. Whether it is playing a musical instrument, traveling abroad, or art or dance, things that we wanted have been stripped from us. I love the American commercial by Monster.com which simply asks the question:

    “What did you want to be?”

    In order to be truly happy we have to go back to that point in our lives when we had dreams OUTSIDE of the organization and see if we can rekindle our spark with those dreams. As a matter of fact, that is the most effective way to help someone to deal with leaving a mind control cult. Find something they were good at, before they were in the cult and then try to awaken that slumbering passion that has been put on hold for so long by the dream stealers at the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society.

    Thanks!

    Doug

  13. You must address your lack of self confidence. That is something that all Jehovah’s Witnesses have in common. Why? Because we have been taught to question our own thoughts, motivations and feelings in every single aspect of our lives. When we’re confronted with a decision we go ask “brother so and so” to get an official Watchtower view. We consult the bound volumes as if they are some sort of oracle capable of giving us all the answers. For many of us, that was the final authority for most of our lives and some from infancy!

    The prospect of actually being free is pretty scary for someone who has been in bondage all their lives. The comfort of prison is usually preferred to freedom for most who have been institutionalized for years. That is human nature.

    I’m going to recommend two great books that I still read to this day:

    Beyond Positive Thinking

    Total Self Confidence

    I think you’re going to LOVE both books by the same author.

    Doug

  14. Iown Mylife

    WOW Doug, you hit the nail right on the head. and thank you for the recommends, i will check them out. –Marina

  15. zebagain

    Our lives are to short to prove this but I have a feeling that the fulfilment of the scriptures has NOT been revealed and all the wt attempts that ‘this’ means ‘that’.. and we ‘therefore’..’conclude’ have lead to this generation of despair. Of course we have never seen the gb ever apologise for their misreadings and that reveals definitely an arrogance and denial of any humility; essentially a stubborn power mongering.
    How about feed the hungry, shelter the homeless, educate the unschooled, support the widows/widowers.
    “Cause little children to come unto me”

  16. “The form of worship that is clean and undefiled from the standpoint of our God and Father is this: to look after orphans and widows in their tribulation, and to keep oneself without spot from the world.”—James 1:27 New World Translation

  17. Karyne. Jacobs

    May I make a comment? I must admit that , although, I’m not new to this forum, I am new to feeling compelled to speak. My comment is this, I am suddenly seeing a very pure, fundamentally righteous form of worshipping the God that I have become intimately familiar, right here. And that is indeed a truly wonderful thing. So, I for one would like to thank you all for your heartfelt Christain comments.
    Agápe,
    Karyne. Jacobs

  18. Karyne,

    Thank you so much for your kind words. You really touched my heart and I have to say that your comment is without a doubt the highest praise that has been posted on this blog.

    I believe that we all have the ability to seek God and find Him if we simply bother to look for Him. That isn’t limited by membership in any group. It isn’t limited by our level of education. It is only limited by our own willingness to seek Him. The problem is that so many times we allow other people to tell us how God is supposed to be sought. We allow other people to dictate what salvation means to us and how we are to go about being saved.

    I believe that when Christ stated that we must become like a young child (Matthew 18:3) He meant that we should approach God as a young child, with no pretense and with no view to a “payoff”. Young children are most sincere and they speak and act from a pure heart. I believe that’s all God wants. Contrary to what the Watchtower teaches, God doesn’t hold a gun to our heads and say: “Knock on doors or I’ll kill you.” I believe that God just wants us to love each other and to love Him and to do our best to be spotless from the sin of this world. When we make our mistakes (as we ALL do) we have our Savior and His sacrifice which has already been made to cover our sin and this is what it means to wash our robes in the blood of the lamb. (Revelation 7:14)

    I truly believe that God loves ALL OF US and that He wants ALL OF US to be saved and being saved is through openly confessing that Jesus Christ is Lord.

    If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. Romans 10:9

    You really touched me Karyne and I want to thank you for making my day with your comment.

    Truth isn’t a set of rules and regulations. Truth isn’t whatever the Watchtower teaches today versus what they taught ten years ago or a hundred years ago. Truth is God’s own Son Jesus Christ.

    “I am the Way and the Truth and the Life. No one comes to the Father but through Me.” John 14:6

    Thank you Karyne!

    Doug

  19. Having left…I’ve been asked by others who are still in…”Where would I go TO?”
    My reply? Go back to bed! It’s wonderful!

    It’s Sunday here for me in Minnesota. No meetings, no stress, no shaking hands with some dickhead at the hall who you’ve known for a decade but he’s never opened his house even once. Me? I’m laying in bed drinking a beer on Sunday morning surfing and planning my next ‘ round the world trip in fall.

    Like the Eagles sung
    …”So many times it happens, that we live our lives in chains, never knowing that we have the key.”

    Garrett

  20. Karyne Jacobs

    Again I must apologize if going against the proper etiquette of this forum, however, I’d like to direct my comment in response to Garrett’s post. Although, I’m not real partial to beer, I so admire your attitude!
    Agápe,
    Karyne.

  21. Garrett that is hilariously funny about the “dickhead” remark. Yeah we all have those people in our past but in many cases it was just such dickheads that made us wake up and take a really hard look at what we were doing with our lives. I have often thought of sending them a “thank you” card for being such jerks.

    Doug

  22. Nothing “proper” here except that everyone is allowed to speak freely unless you’re a raving lunatic. (We all know who that is.) Our lunatic has been sufficiently silenced (God I love this almost Watchtower like power the blog gives me!)

    I’m not partial to beer either especially in the morning.

    Good stuff Garrett and Karyne!

    Doug

  23. Alicia

    This was a great post Doug. I can really relate to it because “stuck” is exactly how I feel or maybe even trapped. I haven’t been going to the meetings for over a month now and of course the lady that used to conduct my study has been worried about me. She sent me a text asking if everything was ok as both my husband & I have been very busy at our jobs so neither of us have been regular in meeting attendance and she said maybe we should have a cookout after “meeting”. I know what’s it’s all about though. My husband is still blinded with this mindset of the Witnesses are your true friends and they really care for you. I feel like it’s just a pretense as they’re told to lure people into the organization. Also, their concern doesn’t seem genuine because I think the really reason why they contact you is a fear of falling away from the “truth”. I’m really dreading that 3 day district convention coming up at the end of June. It’s excruciating to sit so long in those uncomfortable chairs and not to mention it can get boring. My husband of course is excited and says nothing can stop him from going. I’m torn because I really want to spend some time with my hubby out of town & I’ve already taken off from work, but I just don’t know if I can withstand the torture again! I’m thinking about staying home, but that will suck too cuz my car is out of commission right now & I don’t want to be confined to the house while he’s gone either. I truly feel stuck.

  24. Alicia

    Garrett your comment was too funny and yet so true! It’s afternoon in Wisconsin and a beautiful day here. I had a long work week so I’m enjoying my weekend by listening to some music and being outside in this gorgeous weather. I didn’t go to the meeting today because I’m sick of being pressured & stressed by others who think they know what’s best for me. I was never baptized, but used to study. One thing that ticked me off was people telling me to not watch rated R movies & don’t listen to music with suggestive lyrics. Oh, and also nosy old prudes saying what’s proper as far as intimacy between a husband & wife. One of the more recent WT articles said “married couples should avoid any practice that would displease Jehovah”, but what exactly does that mean? It’s so vague, but I think I have an idea what they’re hinting at. What right to people have to assume what Jehovah disapproves of anyway? Well, just wanted to say that I admire your free spirit.

  25. Yeah I remember some elder (aka “dickhead” **Thanks Garrett!***) stating the following when I asked him about oral sex and how do we KNOW that Jehovah doesn’t approve of it:

    “Well that’s what homosexuals do and Jehovah disapproves of them so you don’t want to do what THEY do!”

    I replied: “Well homosexuals drive cars, have jobs and breathe oxygen. I guess I’m going to have to give those things up too.”

    He didn’t like my remark one bit and stormed out.

    Bottom line? When you give up your right to determine what is and isn’t God’s will for you and you hand it over to strangers you get what you deserve and that includes “no oral sex”!

    They leave their commentary vague for a reason. If they were very specific then you’d have some people, a lot of people actually, asking questions. By keeping it vague they can simply claim that it is a “conscience matter” and not have to explain themselves one bit. It also keeps the rank and file guessing and that is where they want you. Certain ones will take the bait and start their own “legislating” in openly condemning oral sex even during the Kingdom Hall discussion of the Watchtower! (I witnessed that to my horror during the Watchtower discussion and if you’d seen the four hundred pound sister who was spouting off about the evils of oral sex you’d congratulate her poor husband who was thankfully off the hook!) I guess she figured if she isn’t getting it then NOBODY ELSE will either!

    Here’s the thing: If you are constantly on the defensive about everything enjoyable in your life including sexual relations between you and your mate then you have very little time to notice the failures of the Watchtower leadership or point them out. You’re constantly stressed because you don’t know if you’re good enough or not so what do you do? You knock on more doors. You place more literature. You attend more meetings. You put more money in the contribution box.

    Class dismissed!

    Doug

  26. I feel your pain Alicia. I wish there were an easy way to deal with this but there really isn’t. Oh and the reason for the district and circuit assemblies? The reason they are so uncomfortable and keep you confined to your seat for extended periods of time?

    MIND CONTROL.

    This is where you are programmed. That is why performance and literature sales go through the roof every quarter when they have circuit assemblies and every year when they have a district assembly. Assemblies are merely extended periods of group thought control followed by a rah rah sales session for the troops!

    “Okay now brothers, Jehovah still loves us as an organization but HE IS REALLY PISSED at YOU for not getting enough hours and magazines placed! Now get your sorry theocratic butts out there and move the product brothers and sisters or Jehovah is going to KILL YOU AND YOUR FAMILY!”

    This is, pardon the humor, really what they are saying when they get up on the stage and throw out the guilt trip to their rank and file. You know it and I know it. The only ones that don’t are the “true believers”.

    Hopefully your husband catches a clue. Looks like you already have. Good for you Alicia!

    All my best!

    Doug

  27. Garrett

    Alecia/Doug….
    Exactly! I used to always hear the crap about pio-sneers being instantly removed if they see an R-rated film
    .
    HELLO! The bible is an R-rated film! Lot’s daughters having sex with him, Ehud’s dagger stabbing fatty King Eglon in the guts until the dagger is swallowed by his fat, demonism, adultery, theft, murder, greed….. The bible has it all…. If I am not supposed to read publications that feature such stuff then I guess I can’t read the bible anymore…….
    ……guess I’ll just have to pour me another Gin and Tonic and get back to Crisis of Conscience…..
    No immorality there.

    Buzzin’
    G

  28. Alicia

    Yeah some old guy in 70’s commented at one of the meetings how married couples should abstain from “perverted & disgusting acts” such as oral sex in order not to lose favor with Jehovah. Of course no one reprimanded him for judging others cuz I guess according to him all couples that practice it are doomed to perish! There’s this one scripture that says “not to go beyond the things that are written” and yet the Watchtower does just that! I’ve heard even younger people in the congregation make up lies like you can get a STD from performing it even if neither partner cheats and I thought this is ludacris! They have absolutely no proof in the scriptures to back up their seriously flawed logic so they try to tell you even it’s not explicitly condemned in the bible, you should be guided by principles. You’re right they lean on the “conscience matter” as an excuse so they don’t have to explain their twisted doctrine. My husband feels like I’ve blown it out of proportion and insists that couples have the right to do as they please, but if you’re baptized I wonder how true that really is? Neither of us are. I won’t let them control what I do in the privacy of my own home, I just hope my husband doesn’t yield to the WT powers that be eventually. Thanks for your input on this Doug.

  29. Garrett you are too funny for words!

  30. Thanks for yours Alicia! It has been awhile since someone opened up the old “oral sex” question.

    Typical response: When called on the carpet for their flawed views and the fact that they are unscriptural JW’s immediately “punt” the ball and say that medical science backs them up.

    “Hey “Bertha”, medical science also states that you shouldn’t eat five pounds of butter per week too. Where were YOU when that memo went out? Must have been down at the 24 hour buffet having a snack!” 🙂

    I’m still laughing at Garrett’s comment.

  31. My apologies to anyone who might have been offended by my weight remarks. However, the JW’s are so on about health when it’s someone else who is at fault i.e. smoking, drinking, oral sex, etc. The second you put the shoe back on their own swollen feet they shut up pretty fast. It amazes me how many JW’s are MORBIDLY OBESE and to my knowledge NOT ONE has ever been disfellowshipped for it.

  32. Garrett

    Alicia,
    Just read your last post. Lots of thoughts…I would write you a small book but my laptop was just recently stolen
    (At a nursing home where I am running a construction project of all places!) so I will have to hen peck they keys.

    Like you and your husband, most of us we’re die hard witnesses at one time. Slowly we began to wake up.
    I think the movie the Matrix is one of the best parallels.

    I don’t think anyone should ever quit the witnesses because they are lazy, or because sister X offended them or because they are busy or or or….for me , if it really IS the truth, those are not valid excuses.

    HOWEVER….it isn’t the TRUTH.
    1) Read Crisis of conscience,

    2)study the long sad history of the watchtower society and all the false dates (FYI …false prophets in the bible were to be stoned to death…so long Governing Body).

    3) Study animal life….ie. spitting cobras , Venus fly traps, lion fish, chameleons with 18 inch tongues that lash out and grab prey and a million other animals that feed on each other and then listen to the BS the Tower is trying to sell you that the animals were all created as vegitarian. Ha!!!!…tell that to spiders who spin webs to capture their prey and inject poison into them before sucking out their guts…the WT GB are morons! Never ask a New Yorker about animal life… It’s like asking an African Pygmy about FAA airline regulations.

    4) research other websites where ex witnesses expose all the flip flops and changed teachings. Look into how blood guilty the Governing Body are for their former teaching where they condemned vaccinations as the work of the Devil (look it up…the old drawings are hilarious and disgapraceful)…how many witnesses contracted Polio, other horrendous diseases or died because a hand full of arrogant assholes on the eastern seaboard of America decided to play God in others lives.

    You will never be free from guilt or chains until you take the time to do,all the research on these and many other topics. Knowledge is power . The bastards on the Governing Body are telling you NOT to look in the trunk of the car. Still, you know something stinks….something is wrong…open the trunk and see the decomposing body of truth…… That is when you find out your hero is a killer….

    That rant felt so good…I may have to drink another Gin and Tonic!

  33. Awesome stuff Garrett!

    Crisis of Conscience is the best book that any JW or former JW or just someone studying with JW’s could possibly read. It lays it all out in no uncertain terms by someone who had absolutely NO REASON to do anything other than to tell the truth.

    Doug

  34. Andrew

    Doug:

    For those who are stuck, and perhaps are wondering what to do if they leave, maybe the words of Charles Taze Russell from the November 1884 Watchtower, which I have pasted below, will help. I keep a copy of this on my desk and I read it nearly every day. For the record, I have been a Witness for over 35 years, and I despise the mind control techniques used by many Witnesses in positions of power and authority. And also for the record, I strongly support Doug’s mission to help others free themselves of the guilt that is often used to control Witnesses. I consider Doug my brother in Christ. I hope this quote will help you as it has helped me. The third paragraph in particular describes perfectly the difficult position many current Witnesses are in. In many ways, Russell was well ahead of his time.

    (Beginning of quotation)

    It becomes the duty of the hour for every saint to not only cast entirely aside every human yoke of bondage. and stand free indeed, (Gal. 5:1,) but to assist other saints to the same blessed liberty. When thus liberated from sectarian bondage, the spirit of truth will be able to lead into all truth: and such only are able to follow. Would not the union of heart at once bind all these “free” ones? And would not the union of heart under the “guide” of the Spirit of truth, soon be perfect? And would not union of labor be a natural accompaniment? We answer, yes ! So surely as we comply with the conditions, we shall have the result follow, as promised by the Lord: – “That they all may be one.” and then the result of this will be also as he expressed it, “That the world may believe.” (John 17:11, 21.)

    If then it is seen that all the present systems are improperly named “Churches,” improperly organized, improperly bound together, and have improperly built upon the decisions of fallible and mistaken men, and are thus hindered from growth in grace and knowledge, and that these systems are not recognized by God at all, and never alluded to in His Word except to condemn them, then, duty is plain. “Come out of her my people,” will not be disregarded by those anxiously seeking guidance and cannot be disregarded without loss in knowledge as well as in favor of God. His sheep hear his voice and follow Him, and He leads them to green pastures.

    One trouble which seems to beset many is this, They have become so accustomed to a fixed doctrinal fence of narrow limits on every side, that to place them in the green pastures of truth with its wide range of liberty, bounded only by the great fence of God’s Word; alarms them, and they ‘fear; lest they should get lost with such liberty. They have heard that infidels roam in a large field without any fence whatever, and fear lest they should be getting into that field. Some have written to us saying that they see the error of and hindrance from union with systems misnamed THE CHURCH of Christ and desire to come into the liberty, grace and knowledge of a larger place, but are at a loss to know what to join when they withdraw from present membership.

    (End of quotation)

    Andrew

  35. Alicia

    Garrett, your comment about the “pion-sneers” was so hilarious and yet very fitting! It’s like there’s plenty of violence and murder in the Bible, but it’s somehow off limits or inappropriate to watch an R rated movie?!? It just doesn’t make sense to me. I had a few beers tonight and I think I’m going to check out that book.

  36. Alicia

    I couldn’t have said it better myself Doug! That’s the conclusion I’ve reached to that these conventions & assemblies are really brainwashing festivals. What I hate is how the die-hard witnesses will say it is so worth going for the spiritual food even if it can be uncomfortable. Who are they kidding? That sacharrine-sweet attitude seems so fake to me. I didn’t go to the special one day assembly earlier this month & I ran into some witnesses at the grocery store and they were raving about how it was so good because it was all about the “ministry”. I just couldn’t think of anything more enjoyable than hearing how the ministry is going to win favor with Jehovah and buy salvation. Sounds like one major snooze session and puppet programming event to me.

  37. Be careful with that book. Once that door opens you’ll never close it. (He said in an ominous tone)

    Doug

  38. Alicia

    Hi Doug, I’ve been reading that book Crisis of Conscience ever since I downloaded it here. As a result, I’ve had a few heated arguments with my husband in regards to the Governing Body’s abuse of power. He listened for awhile, but it wasn’t long before he started to lash out. Of course, he asked me where I was getting my information from. I told him about what I had read so far in the book. One subject I brought up was the cruel & unspeakable torture Malawian Witnesses had to endure at the hands of God’s so-called appointed channel all because they were told they would violate their Christian neutrality if they purchased a political card. The problem was that simultaneously in another country (Mexico) brothers there were paying a bribe to create a falsified document that stated they had served in the military, yet the organization saw no fault in this. Hypocrisy at its worst is what I call it. My husband questioned the validity of what I had read & got so frustrated with me that he called his Mother to see if she could reason with me. I explained to his Mom that I felt this situation I read about was very contradictory to me & she accused me of being critical of these annointed men & that we must listen to them. I even opened up the taboo topic of oral sex between married ones & I confronted her that if God wanted to make a list of what he considers to be deviant sex practices in a marriage, he would’ve done so much like he had detailed many other things like incest, bestialit in Leviticus. I believe he didn’t do that because he felt that marital affairs should be private between husband & wife, it’s not the business of some old men! She claimed Jehovah thinks it’s a sexually perverted act with no scriptural proof to back this up. She claims it’s in Leviticus, I never seen anything like that. She says it’s not a conscience matter (like some Witnesses have said) & adamantly insisted that this wasn’t just her opinion, that she wasn’t biased because of her older age & that these are God’s thoughts. I said we really don’t know how God feels about & not to go beyond the things written. Of course, the conversation ended with “a hope that I would open my eyes to the truth” & later my husband said I was wrong for disagreeing with the Governing Body & even labeled me the lovely term of apostate! Sorry for the long rant, I just had to vent and I feel so alone. I can’t get through to my husband or mother in law, it’s like they programmed to speak before listening. I feel so alone…….

  39. Alicia

    I apologize for all the typos in my last post, Doug. I’m on a mobile device & it’s not the easiest to type on lol. My mother in law also urged me to go to the elders so that they could guide me in the right direction. I’m not going to talk to some men about my intimate relations with my husband, that’s just crazy! Unfortunately, countless ones suffered in the 70’s from the Watchtower’s dogmatic stance on matters not even addressed in the Bible. On a funny note, my mother in law said people shouldn’t be putting their mouths on genitals because that’s what dogs do! Incredible! My husband also kept warning me that hopefully I will wake up before Armageddon comes. Great, I’m getting a death wish now! (sarcasm intended). He thinks I’m just being selfish & don’t want to follow God’s standards & even compared me to an Atheist. Could it be that maybe I’m seeing the chips & flaws in the Watchtower doctrine….trying to maintain my integrity before God & staying true to my conscience? I just can’t take his excuse that the governing body are just imperfect men who made some mistakes. I can’t reconcile the harm & irreparable damage they’ve brought to good, innocent people by “playing God”.

  40. Garrett

    Hello Alecia.
    Sorry to still hen peck the keys. This might be short as a result until I get my replacement lap top.

    When people “lash out” it’s because they are frightened. A cornered, scared animal is a very dangerous animal.
    You’ve made your point and it sunk in with them. Trust me, they are troubled and see your logic but feel so out of sorts. To agree with you means the Governing Body is wrong and if they are wrong then then then….they do the fast math and see the end result and it doesn’t add up well…so they just prefer to screw the data.

    If human minds were like computers you would just have to put in the new program and it’s on its way and working better than ever….but humans are very emotional creatures…and emotion is a barrier to logic..(I think Spock on Star Trek taught us some powerful lessons in that regard)…

    To listen to you would be disloyal, to listen to you would be scary, to listen to you requires a serious paradigm shift, to listen to you requires humility, to listen to you requires courage to not be afraid of change, to listen to you requires they love truth over personal comfort…….every time you bring stuff up like you do you are testing their inner metals. Like heating them up in a blast furnace…what will rise to,the top? Scummy dross or gold.
    You are about to find out what kind of people really surround you. Lovers of truth or lovers of comfort,men,prestige,security and intellectual laziness. Just the fact you are waking up doesn’t mean your family wants to wake up.

    Good luck to you on your search. Ifmyoumalwaysmstick to facts, logic and love of truth you will succeed.
    Search for it as for hidden treasures the bible advises ……if someone refuses to dig into the sad history of the Watchtower society they will never find the treasure of truth but will aleph ayes be looking at fools gold thinking they have found something worthwhile.

    P.s. You are not alone. We are with you and here.

    (I hereby award myself a delicious Blue Moon Beer for that posting)
    Garrett

  41. Sigh…well I told you so. I got so angry when I read that about the Malawi Witnesses. I was in the organization during that time and the leadership was always holding them up as a “poster child” for what WE should be doing.

    Here’s how they would present it for maximum guilt:

    “Brothers we have our brothers and sisters in MALAWI being tortured, raped and killed for their beliefs and they are making their stand for Jehovah. Yet many of us are INACTIVE PUBLISHERS and won’t even go DOOR TO DOOR!”

    It was a great publicity stunt. Every time I opened a magazine it was about the Malawi atrocities.

    To think that they knowingly turned a blind eye to Mexico and what was happening there is a case in point for anyone following the Watchtower leadership. Malawi was EXPENDABLE! Very little growth was happening there and there was NO MONEY there. However the growth and donations in Mexico was exploding. The Watchtower leaders didn’t want to rock the boat with the Mexican government at that time and they didn’t want to lose out on their cash cow. Turns out it was a smart move because Mexico has LOTS of Jehovah’s Witnesses now.

    With regard to your husband and mother-in-law:

    It is absolutely STUNNING to me how grown people can blindly follow the Watchtower leadership but they do and your husband and mother-in-law are prime examples of the severe brainwashing that occurs when one joins a cult. It doesn’t matter how much proof you bring to bear, it will fall on deaf ears and blind eyes.

    I’m sorry that you feel so alone. Welcome to my world Alicia. It is tough and it hurts a lot. However we do get past the pain eventually and we become stronger and better people as a result.

    Here’s something to consider: Instead of being angry at them be THANKFUL that you woke up. We all walked the “Borg Sleep Walk”. We all drank the “koolaid”. By the grace of God we are now free of it. Imagine how special and strong and unique that makes us!

    Doug

  42. Atheist? Atheists get treated much better than apostates Alicia. As long as you do NOTHING about faith in God then it’s better than doing something. That is the JW stance. They would rather you be Godless than to have a faith that conflicts with theirs.

    Many on this blog will agree with that statement wholeheartedly. My mother was fine with my not being anything but the second I started attending a church she went stark raving NUTS!

    Doug

  43. Garrett

    ….and a nutter ting….

    If you want to find out about damage to people’s lives as you reference…do research on the WTs stand on vaccinations. They literally said vaccinations were the work of the devil. To quote them ” Vaccinations have never, nor will they ever, help anyone” Look it up!

    How many people died because of listening to those arrogant assholes in Brooklyn? How many children were crippled in the 1930s when polio was a real terror on America because they listened to spiritual and medical quacks called Rutherford and co.? How many apologies did the WT society issue for people coming down with horrible diseases? (Zero actually) How much financial compensation did the watchtower society dole out to families struck by diseases that could have been avoided? (Nil)
    The Watchtoer society is horribly blood guilty. If there is a God, he is going to kill the Governing body for their blood guilt and shameless lying and un repentance.

    (Chalk another Blue Moon up to the kid!)

    G

  44. A very nice post there Garrett!

    You really put it into perspective.

    Doug

  45. Garrett

    Thanks Doug …just doing my civic duty…

  46. Alicia

    Hi Garrett,

    Thank you for your reassuring words, it is good to know there are others that can relate to my struggle. You are right, scared is a good word to describe how they are feeling. My husband’s reaction frightened me a little when I told him he doesn’t even know about the real history of the Watchtower organization – he replied I don’t want to know, scary indeed. I only regret I didn’t research the Watchtower org more independently from the start as I had been studying since 2011. My husband will say he can’t talk to me, but it’s like he puts up a mental blockage and automatically shuts me down when I bring up the disturbing details of the Watchtower’s past saying he doesn’t want to hear it. I feel like I’m stuck in some alternate universe where no one listens to reason & logic. Yet he has the nerve to say I’m being cocky, but I feel it’s a certain type of arrogance involved when one refuses to examine their beliefs. His mother says I’m just not getting the point & maybe Jehovah’s spirit is not with me while my husband asserts that if I go against the organization, I’m an enemy of God. I know in my heart this isn’t true, but they are really trying hard to confuse & guilt trip me, so it seems……

  47. Garrett

    http://www.bible.ca/Jw-Prophecy.htm

    Alecia…check out the link above. It is really 44 pages of false prophesies made by the WT society.
    Once again…look them up.
    Print them all up for your husband and mother in law and have them spirally bound. Hand them a copy and say
    “In the light of bible scripture that says false prophets were to be put to death….please defend your beloved Governing Body” Request they write a paragraph of explanations after each instance. There are literally hundreds of false prophesies made. It would take them years. The information is so damning that only a fool would discount it after reading it.

    “It fell to earth and made a G sound”

  48. Alicia

    Doug & Garrett,

    Thank you both for your posts. I’m grateful to have this site to vent my frustrations, it’s very therapeutic for me. I now understand why a close friend of mine told me to be careful with the Witnesses.

    Doug – it all makes sense now as to why the Malawian Witnesses were treated so unjustly because there was no profit to be made. Thanks for shedding some light on this. I told my husband that the Watchtower is a very rich corporation & he resorted to the same tired argument that it’s not like the churches of “Christendom” where they bring out the collection basket – yeah right. The Watchtower just makes profit behind the scenes. This year during a door to door presentation at a meeting, I noticed they even incorporated a part about involuntary donations for their magazines, it seemed weird to me. Your words really touched me because it sounds like you know exactly what I’m going through, even though I know your experience was even more rough & lasted much longer than mine.

    Garrett – that sounds interesting about the vaccination issue and I have heard how the organization caused so many people great suffering & in some cases death – all because of their manipulative brainwashing skills. What amazes me is the word organization isn’t even used in the bible, it makes no mention of God’s visible organization. Hell, even their founder Charles Taze Russell was against the idea of an organization, yet so many Witnesses aren’t aware of that. It’s sad.

  49. Garrett

    Best of wishes Alecia. Keep us posted.
    Pick your battles….
    Never let them get you in the ” back room” or you are done.

    As Jesus said…”.be as cautious as serpents and as innocent as doves”………or was that chickens?

    G
    Ps….heading around the world again in fall…any travelers out there?
    http://Www.chasingRBBTS.blogspot.com

  50. Alicia

    Hi Garrett,

    I will definitely check out that link you posted, and that’s a great idea – the truth needs to be told.

    I will keep you guys updated as I know this is only the beginning of my journey. I know it’s not going to be easy….Again, thanks for your posts because it gives me the added strength to move forward & really helps me get through some tough times.

  51. Karyne Jacobs

    Dear Doug(may I call you Doug? I hope I may and please continue to call me Karyne. I personally can’t stress the importance of a NAME and actually this where I start MY story, as I were because I have found part of what I want right here on this very site. So since I now intend to start spending some quality time here, I decided to end the parenthesis right here and allow selfs to get to know one another.) So since I’ve only knowledge of myself I’ll get started with my history. Convoluted as it may be, I do believe that you will indulge me because I believe that I have indeed found what I have spent fifty-seven , almost. And please I apologize for my poor typing. I am disabled as well as attempting to use the little keys on my iPhone. So again I’ll start. I have a long standing history of depression since high school. However, my type of depression never was based upo life circumstances. In many ways I’ve lived a charmed life. I was very pretty. Always did everything real well. However, ended up growing up with two very disfinctional people. A mother that was a raging alcoholic, who beat the shit out of me the denied it and then a father who had his head in the sand. I grew up rather quickly determining some how were not going to dostroy me. So I did what I wanted. I wAs a strong kid who fortunately had the strength I believe now to be due to God as I know him. I believe, an firmly convinced his name is Yahowah. And that he indeed wants us to know his name. This is where I come to the Jehovah’s Witnesses. Due to my difficulty typing I will from now one simply refer to them as Jehovah’s Witnesses . Oops I just found out how to use my shortcut keys! Anyway, this brings me to the Jehovah’s Witnesses. Which is where I was going anyway. However, ironically I was just interrupted by a call from one of them. I however was speaking about God and his name and this bring me back to them because for the last six years I have been studying with them. However, as in any population there are going to be
    true faithful people as I believe you are. No I change that. I know you are. Your heart is pure. You love God. I know and so does he. I know that I have found him, too. Just like you and that’s why I’m staying awhile because you have much to teach me. I have never been a witness. Never wanted to be. However, my God, just like the Witness has a name. I was introduced that name, Yahowah , almost simultaniously as when I started studying with the Jehovah’s Witnesses. I unfortunately, attempted suicide six years ago. As a result I had to sell my home and live in a community residence. There I met an absolutely wonderful woman that eventually became one of my dearest ever friends. She introduced me to the Jehovah’s Witnesses. At about the same time I met my then boyfriend. This relationship just recently broke up and quite honestly kind of broke my heart. However he turned out to be some one other than how he portrayed himself. More about that later maybe. For now I want get back to the Jehovah’s Witnesses and the fact that since I’m of the belief that Holy Spirit is indeed guiding me, and that’s how I know you are the real deal so to speak but I know when somebody gets me and my new friend get me. I have worked hard at the insight that I have as well as having been blessed by God with good insight to begin with. With all things as well as blessings they need to be maintained. So anyway I have indeed been fortunate enough to have indeed met two vey fine Christian woman that happen to be Jehovah’s Witnesses. However, they are a bit different. They have stuck with me through thick and thin. I have always made it clear that I don’t want become a witness however, I need to get baptized do I not? This is where I could use a little advice since you guys are so much smarter than me. I’ll only been studying for six years. I’m still an infant. Being that I’m disabled. That was due to an anti depressant that I had been treated with way back in 1997. God fortunately helped me through my year long hospitalization. I still partially parellized on the left side. Anyway, I can no longer go into the water except if someone carries me. So what do I do? Do I need to be baptized and what scriptures support your view. I would so appreciate an answer and if you prefer will provide you my email if preferable. Thank you, tremendously for your time. I know it is indeed very important. So I thank you .

    Agápe,
    Karyne.

  52. Karyne Jacobs

    Wow, I sure should have reread that before posting it. However, I’m dead tired and didn’t have the energy. I do hope you can get the gist of what I was saying. In the future I assure you I shall proofread my posts and again I do thank you so for your kindness.

    Agápe,
    Karyne.

  53. zebagain

    Karyne, what a beautiful name. Tread slowly with care, don’t rush, you have an honest and open heart. I extend a big hug. don’t worry about spelling erruz. I too am on life medications being bi-polar and they have side effects being weight retention.. and that’s a real b*******. Or as the wife said to her husband “do you realize honey, you have 8 kilos that I never married?”
    “Well darling, but you have lost weight” he replied but as she turned away said,
    “Oops ,.. no its still there”.
    As you see I love to laugh and humour to me is as Readers Digest were want to say; “The Best Medicine”.
    I am glad for you that you have friends who have stuck by you. such folk are rare indeed.

  54. zebagain

    Alicia, I nearly died a few years back, short story but ambulance called hospital, ECG etc. As I was ‘going’ realized we are our own beings as we die we are not a brother a sister, a shop assistant a farmer husband wife all that earthly identity stuff slips away we are our own self. And the sense of peace i had was better than morphine. :then they brought me back. Thud!
    Please tread carefully; if husband or mother in law want to passionately believe try ever so hard not to convince them other wise but have your line they are not allowed to cross either and say so. You will never convince M in L as she is the mother of her boy who ‘you’ took away.
    As you and we all have seen when jw are beliefs are challenged they can become belligerent and will endlessly quote what ‘the society’ says. A situation at this point is not win no win. To pursue further can be a wrecker of all things.
    Peace big hugs.
    ps Do you have a hobby? Creativity is a great balm.

  55. Alicia

    Zebagain,

    Wow, that seems like quite the experience! Glad you made it through, although I know this life can be tough.

    My main concern with my husband & mother in law is to maintain the peace, despite the fact that there are issues we can’t see eye to eye on. A good friend warned me that I may have a tough time with my husband now that I can’t accept everything “the Society” says. I’ve already learned the hard way that when I try to challenge or put into question the authority of the Watchtower organization, the people I care about are going to react aggressively defensive as there’s really no easy way to discuss these things. My husband & mom in law have such implicit & unbreakable trust in the Society and any fact I present is met with an answer that sounds ripped right from the pages of a Watchtower article. All I want is for them to see the hypocrisy & error of these WT leaders and not view them as incapable of doing wrong. They tell me that every secret I uncover is just a lie to make God’s organization look bad & they make me feel as though I am dead wrong, but am I? My intuition is telling me otherwise….

  56. Alicia

    Zebagain – Sorry, I forgot to answer your question about hobbies in my last post. Had a long day at work LOL….but I’ve always had a talent for doing freehand sketches, I especially love drawing pictures of animals. I also enjoy anything to do with music and have an affinity for classic cars.

  57. zebagain

    “.. alI want is for them to see the hypocrisy..” That sounds simple enough but is for them a short scene to justify a ‘Spielberg’ sized production of pride, reality, life-change, and pushing the start button on their own conscience to consider a few. Perhaps spending all your resources of time and life searching the Atlantic and raising the Titanic; being possible but so difficult and your life being left the worse for the experience.
    Drawing animals (jealous hmph!) I cant draw a cheque!
    Classical music? Go on line to
    http://www.abc.net/classic/listen
    Peace unto you
    Big hugs

  58. Hi Karyne,

    If you wish to be Christian then it is, according to the scriptures, necessary to be baptized. Even Christ Himself was baptized by John the Baptist. It was a necessary thing for Him and we are no different.

    I’ve seen people baptized in a pool in someone’s backyard and I’ve seen people baptized in a church pool. I’ve also seen JW’s baptized and was myself. The issue with JW baptism is that they DO NOT baptize according to Christ’s instructions in Matthew 28:19. Christ specifically instructed His disciples to baptize “in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.” Anyone who has been baptized as a JW will know that they only baptize into the organization and not in the manner Christ instructed above. The reason they stray from this baptism is because the Watchtower teaches that members of the “great crowd” are not actually Christ’s brothers and sisters and are instead a group who are riding into paradise on their coat tails. You’ve probably been exposed to the oft quoted scripture at Zechariah 8:23 taken out of context by the Watchtower leadership saying that “ten will take hold of the skirt of the Jew”. This is in my opinion exactly why they stray from Christ’s instructions. You and I, as members of the great crowd are outsiders to the closer relationship that the Watchtower leadership claims for those who are “anointed”. When examined it becomes clear that Christ isn’t even our mediator but only for the 144,000 as taught by the Watchtower leadership.

    The where of baptism is irrelevant as the scriptures reflect. A baptism isn’t necessarily some big ceremony with lots of onlookers. It can be as simple as one Christian baptizing another in a pool, river or stream. I would say that baptism in a tub of water would suffice.

    Going back and forth over how the Tetragrammaton is pronounced or should be pronounced is irrelevant to modern day Christians. The ONLY name we are given by which we are saved is that of Jesus Christ…period. As you are probably aware, the actual pronunciation of the Hebrew name for God was lost because of the traditions of the Jews in not ever uttering that name. We have the consonants but no vowels so pretty much any attempt at proving how it sounded five thousand years ago is a fool’s errand.

    The New Testament says that there is ONE NAME under heaven by which men are saved. Not two or three. That name is Jesus Christ.

    Acts 4:8-12

    Then Peter, filled with the Holy Spirit, said to them: “Rulers and elders of the people! If we are being called to account today for an act of kindness shown to a man who was lame and are being asked how he was healed, then know this, you and all the people of Israel: It is by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified but whom God raised from the dead, that this man stands before you healed. Jesus is “ ‘the stone you builders rejected, which has become the cornerstone.’ Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to mankind by which we must be saved.”

    We know how Christ’s name was pronounced in Greek and it sounds much like “Yayzoo Kristou” in Koine’ Greek. Yet we all call Him Jesus Christ. Hopefully you are beginning to see my point and that is that we have everything we need in Christ and that proper pronunciation of a name is not nearly as important as knowing Who that name represents. There is simply no instruction in the New Testament to go back to the Jewish system of worship or teaching as a way to salvation. Yet the Jehovah’s Witnesses and others like them constantly refer back to the Old Testament to justify their works based theology.

    Doug

  59. Again, the most important thing is that you were understood and not whether you dotted each “I” and crossed every “T”. We read you loud and clear Karyne!

  60. Excellent point. There is a fine line between defending our own beliefs and attacking those of others.

    Doug

  61. I’m thankful that we are truly awake and have gotten past the Watchtower dogma.

    It can be really tempting to try to share what we know with the JW’s in our lives however in practice it really does fall on deaf ears and causes nothing but problems in our relationships.

    That’s the reason for this blog. It is for those who are looking for answers, not for those who still think they have all the answers.

    Doug

  62. Karyne Jacobs

    Dear Doug,
    I so appreciate your response, insight and, apparently, well trained mind in to the Truth. You gave me much to consider. And how exactly you were able to decipher my typographical laden comment is beyond me. I wrote it and when I went back in an attempt to read my own comment, I had a difficult time. Must, indeed, be Holy Spirit. Honestly, I’m not being flippant, I am truly sincere and am gaining enormous respect for your discernment. Hebrews 5:14. A further question, if I may, is total water emersion necessary? Given my particular form of disability, this remains quite an issue of importance as far as fesiability.
    What a truly fine example of a Christian you are in my humble opinion. One that I believe we’d do best to try and emulate. Great thanks to you and all that contribute to this unique forum. I’m finding it tremendously enlightening. So, again, I truly thank you for all that you do.
    Agápe,
    Karyne.

  63. Karyne Jacobs

    Dear Doug,
    Sorry, just one last thought, if you will, and as is starting to become a custom, I look forward to any response you may have. One of my favorite scriptures is 1 SAMUEL 16: the later part of verse seven, which talks about the way That God sees verses the imperfect, superficial way that man sees. There is, for much time been evidence of people’s ability to hone in on ones sense’s acuteness. Much like a blind person, indeed, can display the proven ability to sharpen, if you will, the eyes ability to see if you suddenly became deaf In compensation for the loss of hearing. Essentially, it has been shown that they can hear better due to their own effort to make stronger their ability to hear. I’m a firm believer that you can indeed partially strengthen a sense if you so choose. If you are capable of achieving this, how much greater would it get with the help of God’s Holy Spirit? Therefore, it’s my belief that we also can start to learn ‘how’ to see like God sees, with his Holy Spirit, of course. But possible it is. I believe it is possible to begin viewing things from the heart, just like God does, instead of from the eyes as man does. And you, my new friend, indeed have a wonderful heart that’s a joy to watch. And very soon we shall be rewarded by being among ALL who feel the same way.
    Agápe,
    Karyne.

  64. zebagain

    Karyne.
    Numbers 6 v 24 – 26.
    Zebagain.

  65. Dear zebagain,
    Much thanks for your kindness and uplifting scriptural references. I so appreciate your thoughtfulness to someone you don’t even know. Isn’t that what Jesus stated was the defining characteristic of a true Christian? It’s truly a comfort to find so much of that here. Again, I thank you.
    Agápe,
    Karyne. Jacobs

  66. Garrett

    Can I be the fly in the ointment here???…so sorry in advance….I know this will make me unpopular…
    I’m just amazed how many people leave the witnesses like I did…only to get mixed up in religion all over again!

    For me, it’s like someone getting third degree life threatening burns all over their body and being in the hospital for years…but as soon as they are discharged they go back to the stand where they got the fireworks and say
    “Um…those Roman Candles didn’t work out for me so well…do you have and fire crackers or bottle rockets?”

    I’ve lived in three foreign countries and traveled through 48. I have seen most of the worlds religions up close and personal from the Mormon temple to the wailing wall in Jerusalem, to Varanasi in India to the temples in Bangkok.
    For me, it’s all a whole lot of bells, whistles,ties and bowling shoes. I think it’s all a load of crap.

    I find the character of Jesus somewhat appealing in the bible, but aside from those four gospels there is endless ass kicking a by God all throughout the bible like an irrational, unstable alcoholic father…and Apollyon (Jesus) in Revelation. It’s like trying to fall in love with a gas chamber…

    Yeah….I’ve had enuff religion….my religion is love and logic….

    Sorry… I’ll let you get back to your regularly scheduled programs…..

    Ps…..AMAZING job on getting 5,000 followers Doug. That’s 50 congregations….and how many do they in turn talk to in their lives…..???…..keep spreading the ugly truth about the Watchtower!!!!

  67. zebagain

    G: No probs. Here in Australia you are accepted for who you are not what you believe. Its your face and an honest extended hand that matters and as christian believers we say here,.. Jesus? is a great bloke.
    I envy you your travels too.

  68. Garrett

    Zeb….I MUST get to Oz one day…..tough people, tough country….I’m dying to buy a junker and ride the entire perimeter till the wheels,fall,off……sans Jesus statue on the dashboard… ;-D
    Best wishes..
    G

  69. Point of order:

    There’s a HUGE difference between religion and faith / belief / spirituality.

    The easiest and most probable path of a JW who realizes they’ve been deceived is to go into non-belief. That is the easiest and the most logical path. I view it as a “cop out” and throwing out the baby with the bathwater.

    I have and always will maintain that it takes more faith to believe that everything happened by accident than to believe that everything happened by design.

    Doug

  70. Karyne,

    The word “baptize” means to immerse in water. Some, like Jehovah’s Witnesses, believe that full immersion is the only true way to baptize which I find hysterically funny as they fail to baptize in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. To split hairs here as to the method of immersion and then to throw a direct command by Christ regarding baptism completely out is as hypocritical as it is humorous.

    According to everything I’ve read there were three ways to baptize in the early church.

    1. Full Immersion

    2. Partial Immersion (the person would stand in a pool of water and have water poured over their upper body).

    3. Pouring water three times on the forehead (termed “affusion”)

    Insisting that there is only one “true” way to baptize is just another way that narrow minded people seek to limit the power and mercy of God. The real conversion takes place in the spirit of the Christian and not in the physical. His Spirit bears witness with ours.

    My opinion, and I’m sure there will be many who disagree, is simply this: Do what is possible to be baptized in whatever manner you find that doesn’t threaten your physical well being. God knows your heart and He knows your motivation.

    Remember, Cornelius and his entire household were anointed by the Holy Spirit BEFORE they were ever baptized. That should give one food for thought.

    Hope this helps.

    Doug

  71. Thanks Garrett!

    It has been an amazing journey from there to here. One of these days I’ll write a book. Of course all I’ll have to do is print off the blog and do some editing LOL!

    All opinions are welcome here Garrett even those of atheists and agnostics. If that were taboo, and it isn’t, then I would be just as hypocritical as the Jehovah’s Witness leaders in limiting the opinions of such people on this blog. That won’t happen on my watch!

    I do have some good points that I can make in that regard but in the end it all comes down to belief. Even if we choose to believe in nothing, it is a belief. I can’t prove God exists beyond a reasonable doubt but you can’t prove that He doesn’t.

    But…what if He does exist? What if I’m right? What if belief and faith in God’s Son Jesus Christ is the only thing required to gain salvation? Is it that important to deny yourself that avenue of eternal life if it were in fact that easy?

    If you’re right then we both become non-existent when we die. Game over. You went out with the harsh unvarnished “truth” about the reality of life and death and the fear that you would become nothing. I went out with the comfort of believing in an afterlife and a God that loves me. I go out with a smile and you go out with a grimace and neither of us is the wiser for it.

    But what if I’m right and there is an afterlife? What if God DOES exist? What if He is doing His best to help you to get past your pain in the JW’s and to see Him for the truly loving God that He is? What if you could do His will without membership in any church or group and without having to give up your own individuality and freedom as a free thinker? What if being kind and loving to others and speaking the truth regardless of the cost is the form of worship that He wants from you? What if God treasures rebels like you? Christ was truly a rebel. He rocked the world He lived in and He backed down many hypocrites in the process. You remind me a lot of Him. 🙂

    Doug

  72. Karyne Jacobs

    Dear Doug,
    I really do so appreciate all your help and knowledge as far as baptism. You have indeed been a tremendous help! Invaluable infact.
    In exploring your website I came across the link to the book Crisis of Conscience. I was aware that it existed, however, never read it before. Given that it was just too convenient to download, I did and boy is it RIVITING! Unfortunately, it extremely scarey as well. I am amazed that even I with a mere six years of studying the Bible can blantently see how obviously their ‘governing body’ continues to over and over again make decisions that are simply not scriptural! If I can see that, I have tremendous difficultly believing that they can not! Recently, the Study edition of the watchtower can out with an article in which they claimed that when Jesus referred to an ‘evil slave’ that it was merely a hypothetical, to warn us, as it were. However, if this book is to be believed, and I’m sorry to say I for one believe it’s indeed factual. Then in reality I believe that at least part of their governing body consists of the evil slave.
    I am appalled. And apparently must be quite naive, unfortunately. However, thanks to people like you, I’m certainly getting an education. Thanks, my friend, for allowing me the opportunity to see the TRUTH, as it were. I think I’m going to get sick. I would never have believed that in this day and age and in this country, shit like this occurs with absolutely no regard for the lives they distroy. I was under the mistaken impression that, that defined negligence. Silly me.

    Agàpe,
    Karyne.

  73. Garrett

    Karyne
    Also to be read is “The Gentile Tiles Reconsidered” it positively PROVES that Jerusalem fell not in 607 but 20 years later. The knock down effect of that means that Christ didn’t return in 1914… And then it means that he didn’t inspect his temple in 1918…. Which means he didn’t choose the Governing Body/ witnesses as his people etc etc…. It destroys ALL the witness chronology .
    And it does it with the help of thousands of ancient manuscripts and hundreds of scholars. ONLY the witnesses believe the 607 date… And they have come up with it because it jives with 1914 which Russel got from the Adventists. You are correct … It is amazing in this day and age that people are still being abused and controlled by such cults who use friends and family as weapons against them.
    G

  74. Karyne Jacobs

    Dear Garrett,
    I appreciate the response. I tell you, I’m really getting an education reading this book. I wish I was able to print it out to read. Presently I’m so sick, in bed with a terrible cold, yet, I’m glued to my iPhone reading this pitiful story, I’m sorry to say I do indeed believe.
    Unfortunately, there’s volumes that I don’t know. However, it appears that they’ve consistently changed the facts to conform to the ways that they want. If I continue at my present rate I aught to be finished maybe tomorrow with this book. Is the book that you suggest downloadable somewhere? Or can you direct me to where I may find it? Thanks.
    Agápe,
    Karyne.

  75. Garrett

    Yes Karyn.
    Obviously I would recommend paying for the book rather than a free PDF.
    If you can’t find it, let me know and I can send you a copy.

    It is not easy reading like Crisis is.
    It’s long winded and stoically Scandanavian. The ex brother is Swedish, but the Governing body was so terrified of his years of meticulous research and references that when he innocently send his findings over to them for review, they couldn’t prove him wrong so they sent over a special envoy to disfellowship him. Only after that did he share his findings en mass with others by publishing his book. His last name is Olafson I think I remember.

  76. That is an amazing read. Another one is the book “Apocalypse Delayed” by Penton. If you want an eye opening complete history of the Jehovah’s Witness cult then that is the book to read!

  77. Correct on all points Garrett.

  78. Garrett

    Sorry for the typo. It should read gentile
    TIMES not tiles….I unloaded plenty of tiles on the construction site today… Perhaps that was the cause.
    Doug, I’ll definitely have to read that as well. Soooooo much to read….
    I just hope I live long enough to see the day this religion/cult falls. I ask for nothing more.

  79. I don’t know if that will ever happen Garrett but I’m with you. I’d love to live to see it. There are far too many gullible people that buy into the JW way of life for nothing more than the “window dressing”. Let’s face it: People are suckers for colorful pictures, a good story and conspiracy theories.

    I’d settle for a very public display of their embarrassing history on prime time television or a reality show on what happens when someone is disfellowshipped.

    I do see and expect more of the mass awakening of members as more and more become aware of the tricks of cults as well as the sordid history of this particular flavor. If the JW’s plan on any growth at all they will have to change. This could include public apology in addressing some very painful areas in their history that have been largely ignored by their leadership and members. Total transparency from the members and inner workings of the Governing Body all the way down to the lowly publisher would be a refreshing attempt to structure a “kinder, gentler” Watchtower. And finally, a complete abandonment of their authoritarian posture and mistreatment of dissenting members and non-members.

    There is NO religious organization that is perfect. However most of them claim “perfection” either in word or in deed.

    “Let God be found true though every man be found a liar.” Romans 3:4

    There is, and has been for the past decade, a major push toward “self directed” spirituality in all faiths. With access to massive amounts of information (Internet) comes power and choice. Individuals from all faiths and backgrounds are leaving organized religion in droves. However, according to polls, many are still people of faith who continue to embrace their beliefs from the vantage point of dissenting independents.

    Governments, corporations and religions have been dragged kicking and screaming into the information age. Those who attempt to quell such “rebellion” are proven to be the demagogues that they always were and continue to be. However, the smart ones will embrace the coming change and then lead the charge to great advantage.

    Doug

  80. Karyne Jacobs

    Dear Garrett,
    I finished Crisis of Conscience. Such a disturbing book. Left quite an awful taste in my mouth. So the next one any clues were I may purchase it? I appreciate greatly.
    Karyne. Jacobs

  81. Garrett

    Hi Karyne,
    Here is the PDF for immediate reading.
    http://www.watchtowerlies.com/linked/the-gentile-times-reconsidered.pdf

    Needless to say…seek out the author of the book and send him money. Anything else would be theft.
    Amazon has it on sale for $115 at one location…Im sure its out of print and someone out there has a
    paper copy and is attempting to build his own tower out of one sale.

    Let me know how you found it…

    G

  82. Karyne Jacobs

    Dear Garrett,
    Well, what can I say? I’m about one hundred pages into this book. And you are so right, the reading certainly isn’t as easy as Crisis of Conscience, however, in the earnest, sincere quest for the truth, the motivation’s there, enabling me to continue struggling through. I must confess to some conflicting, ambivilant feelings! Many things are, indeed, turning out not to be true. If the ENTIRE farsh of the governing body making thier supposely prayerful, informed, scripturally based decisions on watchtower issues, doctrines, etc. is total bullshit as Crisis of Conscience indicates and the fall of Jerusalem isn’t accurate as this book is starting to prove, exactly where are we? Apparently, the Watchtower Society doesn’t have a whole lot of things right. Not that I honestly agreed with a lot of what they said. However, I DID have confidence in thier translation of the Holy Scriptures. Apparently, I was naive there as well. I’ll continue to keep you updated. Again, thanks for the book. Regardless, it’s best to know the Truth!
    Disillusioned in NY,
    Karyne. Jacobs

  83. Garrett

    Dissolutioned in New York….
    I guess it’s better than Sleepless in Seatle.

    The process of discovery is slow and painful…. Who ever thought that the movie The Matrix was a documentary?

    To this day I am stunned. My mother has been a hardcore witness for 65 years.
    After all the things I have shown her she is in her way out.

    This cult will fall. I hope I am still around to piss on the graves of the GB.

    Happy reading…..
    P.s…. If you need an alternative reading list if books I’ve read that are a far escape….. Drop me a line;
    IamIcarus@me.com

    G

  84. Karyne,

    The best metaphor for what you’re going through is peeling an onion. Every time you remove one layer there is another one to tackle and so it goes until you get the very center of the Watchtower teachings and realize that the entire belief system is nothing but made up BS.

    You’re getting there.

    Doug

  85. Garrett

    Look,on eBay or elsewhere. Someone is just trying to get rich off of a hard to find book. Used it should cost you 10 buck.

  86. Being out of print is the reason. When books that had a limited printing anyway go out of print they become extremely rare and therefore they cost a lot more because of that rarity.

    Doug

  87. zebagain

    When I realized hm books there are out there exposing the wts I also learned they carry a big price tag; I have a gut feeling some one with plenty $$ is buying up all they can to keep them out of circulation.

  88. zebagain

    Guard your health and your guard your spirit. I am concerned at you leaving your phone number as it will give access to unwelcomed calls. emails you can delete.

  89. I no longer do phone consultations. It created a lot of problems for me in the past and my wife and I agreed that it wasn’t a good thing to continue to do. All of my interaction on these subjects is done through the blog.

    Thanks,

    Doug

  90. My dad used to say: If you tell a lie, prepare to tell two and then three and then they will snowball after that. This is what the Watchtower has done. It is truly a house of cards and will continue to be so because the very foundation of this man made group is fundamentally rotten. The only thing that remains to do is to move out of it before it falls down around your head.

    At some point you just have to tell yourself: Okay I’ve been swindled. and then just move on with your life.

    Doug

  91. zebagain

    Karyne: “Thou art gracious among women..”

  92. Karyne Jacobs

    Dear zebagain,
    I met my ex- boyfriend while playing chess and developed from there a little symbolism of keeping each other in check. It ended up with me being the one allowing myself to be kept in check because you need, after all, a degree of acceptence in order to be put in check, to admit to yourself, you, quite possibly, could be wrong, as it were. I thank you, zebagain, for ‘putting me in check’. You quite possibly, helped me from much more than you ever could of imagined! So, again, I thank you and may God bless you.
    Agápe,
    Karyne.

  93. zebagain

    Well. that’s what we are here for.

  94. Still_Stuck

    Hi Doug. Glad to have bump in to your blog. Sad to say I am still stuck in this organization although I know what’s happening around me is a big joke. I have been raised as a JW and have been holding a “privilege” for decades now. Been explaining things to my wife every now and then and she gets the big picture of how the society is a fake. I’m new here and maybe you have mentioned this in your other topics… but I just want to know how you left this life sucking organization?

  95. zebagain

    Dear Karyne,
    I just acquired a book;
    “Apocalypse Delayed” 2nd edition, by M. James Penton ISBN: 0-8020-7973-3. University of Toronto Press.
    from the back cover.
    “This is not a vindictive slamming of the Witness org. by a raving ex-member, but a carefully written, well documented critical analysis by a scholar with the special insight that only a former insider could give”.
    I could not agree more.
    Please find yourself a copy and read it well. You will not convince someone who is ‘in’ to come ‘out’ as people who are ‘in’ have scant knowledge of the wts past, no ability to discuss and become belligerent if pressed..
    Your life is what is important not being assimilated into the “collective”.
    big hugs.

  96. did not Jesus say that for the sake of his name we would loose mothers brothers sisters ect? when we do find that were walking down the wrong path or, lets say the never ending ‘treadmill’ ,and we get off that path, there are others who will unfotunatley stay on the treadmill and go no where. thats not moving ahead in any sense of the term. after much research, still stuck, i recommend reading ray franz book in search of Christian freedom. ive only just begun my break, its been 4 months no meetings. i too being raised a jw, but always felt something wasnt right. and as of late see the focus and outright worship of the governing body. i finally just thought, if all the stuff people post is not true then im strong enough to know it, and all my suspicions were solidified. but my mom is the source of my problem shes a hard core jw. but i hope she leaves me be. i avoid talking to her about anything religious. its hard to admit youve been so misled.
    hopefully you can find a way to fade away quicly if you wiah to have peace of mind. its a shame you cant move away, and get a new job thats afternoon shift, no one will miss you. worked for my husband. lol. we all sacrifice for Christ, but his load is lighter , and he gave us freedom. wed be fools to not use his gift

  97. Anonymous

    We haven’t been for 3 years we’ve only just told my sisters and Grandma we don’t believe it’s the truth my husbands parents still don’t know they live about 5 hours drive from us- I wish we could just tell them but my husband doesn’t want to his mother is not mentally stable she locks herself in a room of the house for days at a time even nails the door shut! My sisters still spend time with us one isn’t a witness and my Grandma just I think agrees to disagree so that’s a relief but I still feel like we can’t openly celebrate birthdays etc because his parents don’t know yet and every time his mother phones its “you should really get back to your meetings” he’s tried pointing things out to her that cause us to doubt the org but she’s just too far gone into it he asked her once “if at a meeting a pill was handed out and everyone was told to take it after reading a letter from the GB would you take it?” Her response was “they would never ask us to do anything like that” – “but what if they did mum?” She said “well I’m sure then they would have a very good reason to ask so yes I’d take it”. I hate pretending and I really dislike the label of “spiritually weak” they use to describe us. I dread the visits because it just feels so fake. I’ve learnt that if she starts I mention something about the GB like San Herds gold Rolex and the pinky rings they sport on JW broadcasting and how it makes me uncomfortable that they are wearing $$$$$ on their wrists and asking JWs to dig a little deeper and donate more. Any advice on this is welcome my husband wants to avoid the inevitable meltdown this will cause his parents but we and our children have a life to live too!

  98. zeb

    Older people who are in love with their leader, fuhrer, party , cause will only have the dogma of that cause in their speech. As you say “to far gone”. I like the analogy of the pills handed out. You can not reason with such mind sets.
    Please as has been said here and on other sites the best defence is to be having a normal happy life.
    Let them do the worrying! But the meltdown will happen im sorry to say. A little bit of advice as the borg are coming the heavy on funds next time the family bring up (bring up; that term in appropriate) the wt you might dive in with bayonet fixed and say “yes and they are forever after money by not donating we have been able to send our kids to summer camp and we had a break from the kids as well. (with glint in your eye).
    Thus you are covering the money side. trusting your kids to worldly people and having sex.. three things the wt like to be in charge of.
    warm wishes
    peace
    zeb

  99. zeb

    Dear Anon,
    I read your post again and this touched me where you “I dread the visits “. I know that feeling the entire convo is superficial, with all the depth of Kleenex. Perhaps have some hobby stuff out for when they come around. Patch-working, pottery, kids sports clothes swamp them with your new life.

  100. Anonymous

    Thanks zeb for your suggestions it is the soundest of advice to just carry on and let them observe your happy normal life 🙂 it’s sad how the org has already broken up my husbands side of the family his mother is one of 4 children two of her siblings left years ago but only one was formally disfellowshipped but they both lead similar lives do not have any interest in watchtower and celebrate holidays birthdays etc. Mother in law has not spoken to her df sister since she was df but her brother who avoided elders attempts to meet to df – she sees him multiple times a year along with his wife and kids who were all JWs before, it’s crazy how just cuz the society mansged to rubber stamp her sister she doesn’t exist to her but her brother is fine to associate with! Just glad to be out and seeing it for what it really is and lucky that me and my husband are on the same page I really feel for those whose partners still believe so i count my blessings.

  101. zeb

    you are most welcome.

  102. ruthlee

    hi just discovered this site am searching many places for dear ones experiences and help im in that state of flux as many are had several explosive conversations with my sledgehammer husband after the last nasy rant i quietly said the way you just spoke about the sheep is that how Jesus would have spoken silence and i ended the conversation with im not knocking your religion you carry on and be happy you are not looking for anything better but im no longer convinced and i am searching have the dignity and compassion to let me do so he was fuming but had to conceed so what im trying to say is if you challenge a dyed in the wool JW THEy SHOW THEIR TRUE non christian colours its an eye opener

  103. Anonymous

    Ruthlee I’m truly sorry to hear of your situation as I said in my previous comment I’m lucky my husband is on the same page – I think what your husband is dealing (or not dealing do well with) is the discomfort that all witnesses do/have experienced when someone raises valid points that cause them to see a negative about the “truth” it is the very core of their being its called cognitive dissonance and largely the initial reaction to this feeling can be anger or trying to rationalise with ourselves till we can quiet the source of our doubting thoughts in this case with your husband that would be you. I’m sorry to say that when my dad left the “truth” 13 years ago I too reacted very angrily and it pushed me further into it I was pioneering also had just started seeing my JW boyfriend (who is now my husband) but there is hope because I too left the org 3 years ago. It will take time, I’m sure there will be others who can comment and provide more advice but there’s always hope, however sometimes it requires a mistreatment by the org to cause an individual to start to ask questions and research for themselves and that research tends to have a domino effect where they eventually conclude as millions already have that it’s not the truth. My husband was the first to start questions the org and in our initial discussions I’m ashamed to say I too got defensive and upset but he waited until he could see that I was having my own doubts and nudged me in the right direction of research. Had it of been my dad who tried to open my eyes to the org 13 years ago I wouldn’t have listened because I don’t respect him (long story of domestic violence).

    If anything please don’t lose hope if you really love this man, stick it out – it took time for me to realise it’s not the truth but it happened. I still hold out hope that my sister will wake up to the org but allot of the time the best thing we can do as zeb suggested is continue to live our lives in happiness free of the org and let others see how truly free and happy we have become. You could even use the watchtowers advice to your own advantage on “JW wives with non believing husbands” how by their examples their husbands converted – the same can be true if you want to show your partner how good life is outside the org.

  104. ruthlee

    dear anon thanks so much very valid points i like that advice to take the scripts to heart and win him over God wiiling without a word its strange really because i dont actually want to fight as i dont have an axe to grind anymore one day i would like to write my story because its a really unusual one and i dont think people would quite beleive the journey ironically this last bit of my journey to liberation is the most rocky but at least knowing that there are friends out there who are taking the time to at least listen with respect counts for a lot with thanks rl

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