A Letter From A Jehovah’s Witness

Apr 30, 2017 by

I received the following comment from a Jehovah’s Witness. My response is shown following that:

Hi Doug Shields. The one thing that I find is a common thread with Apostate JWs who now believe in Jesus as God is that you all totally throw out all of the things you learned about the Trinity and other God-dishonoring doctrines. I will be the first to admit the JWs were wrong on all of their predictions but can you honestly say that the biblical prophets did not do the same thing? I have shown Born Again Christians examples in the Bible when a prophet made some erroneous sayings and was not condemned by Jehovah and Jesus. When Jonah said 40 more days he did not say “maybe” Niveah will be destroyed he said Niveah was to be destroyed. Born Again Christians have tried to wriggle out of this by saying there was a “clause” in his prediction for repentence. This cannot be because why did Jonah get angry at Jehovah for not destroying the Niveahites? If he thought there was a clause? Jesus told his disciples they would see him come into kingdom glory before they died but yet they all died. Was Jesus a false prophet? John said in Revelation “in this last hour” Jesus was coming but that was over 2000 years ago. Again was John a false prophet? Apostates and Born Agains always are condemning others but when they cannot answer they always scream “stop attacking us”. This is a joke for them to say they are being attacked. I have many more examples of these but you will probably close your eyes to the truth.

Here was my response:

The account of Jonah’s prophecy is widely misinterpreted. As you well know, the people of Nineveh (Not Niveah! Where did you learn to spell? The Kingdom Ministry School?) repented within the allotted period of time and were spared because of their repentance. The Hebrew word used for your “destroyed” assertion has been used in a wide range as “transformed”, “turned away”, etc. I can cite chapter and verse but hey, so can you.

Using this as an excuse for the abject failure of the founders and leaders of the Jehovah’s Witnesses’ numerous date related false prophesies is totally pathetic.

The Watchtower leadership have claimed “special knowledge” since their beginning, and made specific dates the cornerstone of their teachings. Yet the scriptures all point to Christ and not special dates or knowledge as the Cornerstone of the Christian faith.

Christ even foretold of those who would make such false claims in Matthew 24:24-36.

The Watchtower leadership demands complete and total acceptance of their teachings by their members and anyone openly disagreeing with them can be disfellowshipped for apostasy. Yet when the Watchtower leaders prophesy falsely, and get caught doing it, they claim “we are just imperfect men.”

Anyone pointing to these huge, gaping holes in their history and stating openly that they were failed prophesies can be (and have been!) disfellowshipped for apostasy.

The Watchtower leadership engages in character assassination whenever someone questions them on any point.

Just how evil does an organization have to be, at its core, to forcibly split up families and friends merely because a dissenting member chooses to believe differently? Freedom of religion is a core constitutional right in the United States of America and yet, when a Jehovah’s Witness chooses to attend a different church or decides he or she disagrees with the Watchtower, they are maligned, publicly shamed, humiliated, and ostracized by an organization supposedly motivated by love.

You implied that Jesus was somehow a false prophet because He said that His disciples would not taste death until they saw the Kingdom of God.

Are you so blind that you can’t read the very next verse in Luke 9?

Here, let me cite that for you since you brought it up:

Luke 9:27 “Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the kingdom of God.”

Now read the rest of it:

About eight days after Jesus said this, he took Peter, John and James with him and went up onto a mountain to pray. 29 As he was praying, the appearance of his face changed, and his clothes became as bright as a flash of lightning. 30 Two men, Moses and Elijah, appeared in glorious splendor, talking with Jesus. 31 They spoke about his departure, which he was about to bring to fulfillment at Jerusalem. 32 Peter and his companions were very sleepy, but when they became fully awake, they saw his glory and the two men standing with him. 33 As the men were leaving Jesus, Peter said to him, “Master, it is good for us to be here. Let us put up three shelters—one for you, one for Moses and one for Elijah.” (He did not know what he was saying.)”

You see, His disciples did see the Kingdom of God before they died. Can you honestly disagree with the context of Luke 9?

2 Peter 1:16 confirms Luke 9 completely:

“For we did not follow cleverly devised fables when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of His majesty.”

This was a direct reference to the Transfiguration of Christ of which Peter was an eyewitness as you can see from the scriptures already quoted.

Your vain and foolish attempt to infer mistakes made by Jonah and even Christ Himself in some misguided attempt to justify, as you openly admitted, false prophesies that your leaders have made is standard fare of the Watchtower organization and its followers.

When caught in an outright lie, first deny. When that doesn’t work, blame someone else. If that doesn’t work, attack the accuser. If that doesn’t work, end the conversation. It seems to me that the Watchtower leadership has far more in common with the politics of men than they do with God.

Shame on you and them.

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57 Comments

  1. Robin McEwen

    Well done Doug, you were spot on with your reply.

  2. Carole

    Thanks Doug, I could never have put into words the response you gave to this JW !! The Holy Spirit was certainly guiding you !!

  3. Garrett

    I don’t believe in the trinity but otherwise I agree with everything else you said Doug.
    False prophets were to be stoned to death in the Bible, not followed. (Deuteronomy 18: 20-22)
    People who take the watchtower literature door to door are “sharing in the sins of others” and are blood guilty for taking the words of a false prophet to people’s doors.

  4. Carole,

    When he compared the buffoons at the Watchtower to my Lord and Savior and implied that even Christ made a mistake, I was filled with what I call “righteous indignation”. In other words he really ticked me off!

    I questioned if I was being a little too mean in my response but he opened up that can of worms when he maligned Christ with his remarks!

    Thanks Carole!

    Doug

  5. Thank you Robin!

    Doug

  6. And Garrett, it’s okay that you don’t believe in the trinity. That’s perfectly fine with me. I don’t require that everyone believe in the exact same way as I do in order for me to value them and their opinions. That’s what differentiates me from Jehovah’s Witnesses.

    Thanks brother!

    Doug

  7. John

    Great response Doug. Let’s pray for that JW that they receive grace from the Lord.

  8. Dan

    Great job Doug. I have befriended an elder at the local kingdom hall. He drops by every week or so to meet his return visit quota. My heart breaks for the depth of deception he is under after 40 years in the organization.

  9. Amen John!

    Thanks!

    Doug

  10. Thanks! I agree with your thoughts on the JW that visits you Dan. It is just so sad that they have been blinded by a counterfeit and duplicitous teaching and a works based path to salvation.

    Jehovah’s Witnesses are, for the most part, totally sincere in their beliefs. They truly believe, as did I when I was one, that they are the only true religion.

    There are truly none so blind as those that will not see.

    Doug

  11. Jeroen Zaaijer

    Well spoken Doug! Thank you for sharing this with us! I appreciate your comment on how the wt responds to being caught in a lie. That reminded me of what they did to Baraba Anderson and Raymond Franz, and countless others. Your commends are always faith strenthening and encouraging!

  12. Veaney Arteaga

    Touche !

    You rock ! JW’s are still looking where are their heads

  13. Thank you Jeroen!

    Doug

  14. Thanks Veaney!

    Doug

  15. Lawrence H Narayan

    God bless you Doug, for the work you are doing to help Christians around the world to understand about this dangerous sect deceiving millions of people in the guise of a Christian denomination when it is not.

  16. Thank you for your kind words Lawrence!

    It’s the only thing I can do. Since I was fated to be a JW for the first half of my life, my task is to educate everyone to the dangers of this man made cult.

    Doug

  17. The real question is why is this JW reading your “Apostate” blog? He must have “apostate” doubts. You gave his doubting self a good education. Thank you.

  18. Janet

    This response is to Garrett
    Who rose Jesus from the dead?
    1. We all know God rose him Acts chapter 3:15
    2. Jesus rose himself John chapter 2: 19-20
    3. The holy spirit Romans chapter 8:11

  19. Grace

    Like it I do, so very true.

  20. Anonymous

    That makes Zero sense.

  21. Good point PF!

    Thank you for your kind words.

    Doug

  22. Jodoggie

    The Jehovah’s Witness who wrote the letter should ask the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society why they no longer publish their Trinity Booklet. The booklet was filled with so many misquotes, out of context quotes, and just out right deceptions it got quite a lot of bashing on the Internet. Then it went out of print.

    Next he might want to research why the organization taught it was ok to pray to and worship Jesus from the time of Russell (1880?)up until sometime in the 1950’s. How could God’s sole mouthpiece not know who is worthy of worship and who is not?

    The Bible states that Michael the Arch-angel was “one of the Chief Princes.” That means he is not unique. There may be one other Chief Prince or there may be a hundred other Chief Princes. Jesus is Unique.

    The Bible states, “Jesus is the same yesterday and today and forever.” That description cannot be applied to a created being. That description can only be applied to a being that has no beginning or end.

    Jesus is our “High Priest in the order of Melchizedek.”

    Hebrews 7 tells us:
    First, the name Melchizedek means “king of righteousness”; then also, “king of Salem” means “king of peace.” Without father or mother, without genealogy, without beginning of days or end of life, resembling the Son of God, he remains a priest forever.

    The Watchtower has gotten so much so wrong for so long.

  23. Sandy

    I love gods word and you nailed it?

  24. 7mercies

    Jehovah’s witnesses don’t believe in the Trinity for good reason… I will only use the Bible to explain, even though there are lots of other reasons why you should not believe in the Trinity that you can find in encyclopedias.

    The Bible needs no interpretation, it is plain for everyone to read, and it just takes time to connect all the dots. Also it takes humility to put away what you once thought was true.

    First lets start in Genesis and turn to chapter 1 verse 26 and read “Then God said: “Let us make man in our image” us implies more than one person does it not? Who do you think God is talking to? I almost always get the answer “I don’t know,” maybe you do?

    Next turn to John 1:1, 2 but before you read here is some context. Many people believe this scripture is proof of Jesus being God and people love to fight over the ‘a God’ or ‘the God,’ concept. However this is not why I have brought you to this scripture, let’s not fight over grammar,” now read.

    John 1:1, 2
    “In the beginning was the Word,” (STOP) isn’t Genesis the Beginning? [Note: The first words of Genesis start with “in the beginning?”] (ALSO) isn’t Jesus the word? So let’s start over with what we know. John 1:1, 2 “In Genesis was Jesus and Jesus was with God, and Jesus was (a) god. This one (Jesus) was in the beginning with God.”

    The Bible is clearly explaining that Jesus was with Jehovah in the beginning creating everything, this is the “us” we read about at Genesis 1:26. However you may not believe me, my next scripture further brings home the point, turn with me to is Proverbs 30:4

    Proverbs 30:4
    “Who has ascended to heaven and then descended?
    Who has gathered the wind in the palms of both hands?
    Who has wrapped up the waters in his garment?
    Who has established all the ends of the earth?
    What is his name and the name of his son—if you know?”

    Again the Bible is talking about creation, and it is talking about 2 people creating, a son and a father… the same beginning as Genesis and John, here at Proverbs 30. However, today the Bible is asking you personally if you know the difference between these 2 individuals who created everything.” Do you know God’s name, and his Son’s name?” You should answer the Bibles Challenge… the truth of the matter is clear.

    I am not done yet, turn to Proverbs 8:22-31 and I read the first part with emphasis.

    Proverbs 8:22-31
    “JEHOVAH PRODUCED ME AS THE BEGINNING OF HIS WAY,
    The earliest of his achievements of long ago.
    From ancient times I was installed,
    From the start, from times earlier than the earth.
    When there were no deep waters, I was brought forth,
    When there were no springs overflowing with water.
    Before the mountains were set in place,
    Before the hills, I was brought forth,
    When he had not yet made the earth and its fields
    Or the first clods of earth’s soil.
    When he prepared the heavens, I was there;
    When he marked out the horizon on the surface of the waters,
    When he established the clouds above,
    When he founded the fountains of the deep,
    When he set a decree for the sea
    That its waters should not pass beyond his order,
    When he established the foundations of the earth,
    Then I WAS BESIDE HIM as a master worker.
    I was the one he was especially fond of day by day;
    I rejoiced before him all the time;
    I rejoiced over his habitable earth,
    And I was especially fond of the sons of men.”

    “This is Jesus talking here.” Jesus is explaining that everything came into existence by him, at the direction of his father, and this is why he called himself a Master Worker. At this point you may be seeing why Jehovah was having a conversation when creating everything because he was not alone.

    If you still don’t believe this is Jesus, I will prove it with our next scripture.

    Colossians 1:14-15
    “By means of whom we have our release by ransom, the forgiveness of our sins.” (PAUSE,) clearly Jesus has given us the prospect for our sins to be forgiven, correct? “He (Jesus) is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.” (STOP) this is how we know without any shadow of a doubt that Jesus is the person who was speaking at Proverbs 8:22. The Bible teaches us that at Proverbs ‘JEHOVAH PRODUCED (SOMEONE) AS THE BEGINNING OF HIS WAY,’ here at Colossians Jesus is ‘THE FIRSTBORN OF ALL CREATION!’

    Clearly this is the same person, and what is more, Jehovah is not Jesus. Jehovah created 1 thing, Jesus, and all other things were created by Jesus.

  25. 7mercies

    Colossians 16
    “because by means of him (Jesus) all other things were created in the heavens and on the earth, the things visible and the things invisible, whether they are thrones or lordships or governments or authorities. All other things have been created through him and for him.”

    Now to neatly put a bow on this “lets now go back to John 1:3. “All things came into existence through him, (Jesus) and apart from him not even one thing came into existence.”

    You are free to believe what you want, however the Bible explains very clearly that 2 people were in the process of creating everything, not one person. The Bible also explains that Jesus was created, God was never created. If you are better then Jehovah’s witnesses, then these facts cannot be ignored.

  26. Both occurrences of the word “other” in your citing of Colossians were added by the Watchtower “translators” and do not appear in any other (excuse the pun) version or translation that I’m aware of. In the earlier versions of the NWT they appeared in brackets. The newer version does not include them.

    Check it in your Kingdom Interlinear if you don’t believe me.

    If you take the word “other” out of that scripture, you get an entirely different view of Who Christ really is.

    Doug

  27. Touché, Doug Shields !! Two superb articles & again, great to have you back.
    Agápe,
    Karyne.

  28. 7mercies

    Colossians 1:16
    “because by means of him (Jesus) all things were created in the heavens and on the earth, the things visible and the things invisible, whether they are thrones or lordships or governments or authorities. All things have been created through him and for him.”

    I took out other.

    I was expecting something amazing to happen…

    Was taking out “other” suppose to somehow nullify all the the proof of Jesus Being created in the Bible?

  29. 7mercies

    Also, would you please debunk Proverbs 30:4 where it explains 2 persons made the earth. This was a Father and Son team, what’s that about?

  30. It means that everything in heaven and on earth was created by Christ which would, logically, exclude Christ being a created being.

    The NWT translators knew this and this is why they were compelled to add the word “other” to Colossians 1:16 in the first place.

    This flies in the face of the warning not to add to the things written.

    Doug

  31. 7mercies

    I can explain what I wrote with ANY Bible, so just because you dislike the NWT doesn’t make my argument somehow invalid…

    P.S. The NWT added other for one reason only, because of context.

    You talk about context in your life story, you needed it to understand the Bible, so here is some context. Notice that at Colossians 1:14 it explains Jesus was the first thing ever created. Then 2 versus down it explains that Jesus made everything. So are you trying to explain that the Bible is contradicting itself? Or, is the Bible explaining Jesus being created first, then he made the heavens and the earth? [Proverbs 8;22-31]

  32. 7mercies

    I’ve learned from reading the Bible that wherever the Bible seems contradictory, I have got something wrong. It is the whole reason I cannot believe the end of the world is near. With that being said, the Trinity contradicts all the scriptures I quoted…

    Sadly…

    I thought you were different, but you are no better than your former oppressors. You teach doctrines of men over the word of God. John 8:44

  33. John

    You have to look at things through what God says the whole and not the part. Great to point out that it says “the firstborn of all creation” and another ” first born of every creature” I believe the answer is actually hidden from some. Christ mentions that mysteries were hidden from some and revealed to other ( Apostles) also, 1 Corinth 2:7, Before the world was Christ and the plan of salvation was wrought together, Christ was made a little lower than the angels when He came here Psalm 8:5, Hebrews 2:7-9, but this plan took place outside of time BUT before everything (this is where it gets difficult) Being made or being born is not the same as being created. These are just some points that hit me as I read above posts. God’s plan is far greater than we know and no one person can comprehend it and it’s only revealed to those who diligently seek Him (that is the reward).

  34. 7mercies

    Got ya, “it’s a mystery” cop-out…

    So no one can answer Proverbs 30:4’s challenge?
    No one can debunk Proverbs 30:4 where it explains 2 persons made the earth, a father and a son?

    By your silence, it is answer enough.

  35. Janet

    What Is the Scarlet-Colored Beast of Revelation Chapter 17? According to the Watchtower “The scarlet-colored beast is a symbol of the organization whose purpose is to unite and represent the nations of the world. It first existed as the League of Nations and is now the United Nations.”
    In 1992, the Watchtower became a member (NGO) with the United Nations. Since the WT considers the UN as the scarlet beast, and spent decades condemning the UN, why would they want to be part of it? Not only that, they kept it a secret for almost 10 years and when a magazine exposed it they withdrew their membership immediately. Here is the link to the magazine article: https://www.jwfacts.com/images/guardian-8-october-2001.jpg

  36. Jodoggie

    I was a Jehovah’s Witness for many years. When I stopped reading their Bible with it’s added words and deceptive translations I realized almost all the doctrines they teach are pure dogma. I feel so sorry for these people who have allowed themselves to be deceived.

    In John 1, John is truly saying that Jesus is God. He is not saying Jesus is a god because that would be introducing polytheism. The Jewish people were very monotheistic. He was shining light on the Godhead.

    Isaiah 43:10,11 – “You are My witnesses,” says the Lord, “And My servant whom I have chosen, That you may know and believe Me, and understand that I am He. Before Me there was no God formed, Nor shall there be after Me. I, even I, am the Lord, and besides Me there is no Savior.”

    Did Jehovah lie? Did he create a little god? Never should we believe such blasphemy!

    Proverbs 8:22-31 speaks of wisdom in a poetical sense using a method called personification. Personification is when something intangible is given human qualities. (opportunity knocking at the door). If Proverbs was taken literally that would mean that Jesus is a female and Jehovah possessed no wisdom at all until he created the female Jesus. One would need to read all of Proverbs 8.

    As for Proverbs 30:4 It is not stating that Jesus is not God. Jesus is the Creator, he is God and he is the Son of God. More importantly he is the only begotten Son of God.

    Begotten does not mean created.

    Humans do not create their offspring they beget their offspring.

    Man begets man. God begets God.

    Jesus was not created he was begotten. He was hidden in the bosom of the Father. His goings forth are from ancient times. He is the Father of Eternity. He is the same yesterday today and forever. He is the beginning of creation because he is the cause of all creation. Colossians 1:16 tells us all things were created by him and for him.

    Jehovah’s Witnesses add the word “other” because they are dogmatically opposed to Jesus being God.

    The Bible lays out a rather significant punishment for those who add to God’s Word.

    (Hebrews 1:8–9)” “But to the Son He says: “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever; A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your Kingdom. You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness; Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You with the oil of gladness more than Your companions”

    Jehovah’s Witnesses translate this scripture “God is your throne.” Does that even make sense?
    Once again they are dogmatically opposed to Jesus being God.

    (Zechariah 12:8-10 KJV) “In that day shall the LORD (JEHOVAH) defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; and the house of David shall be as God, as the angel of the LORD (JEHOVAH) before them.
    9 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I (JEHOVAH) will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.
    10 And I (JEHOVAH) will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me (JEHOVAH) whom they have pierced (WHO WILL BE PIERCED? Jehovah will be pierced!), and they shall mourn for him, as one mourned for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.”

    Jehovah’s Witnesses changed the part “they will look upon me whom they have pierced” to “they will look upon the one they have pierced.” Jehovah’s Witnesses are, once again, dogmatically opposed to Jesus being God.

    The only way the Bible makes sense is if Jesus is God.

    I once read that Pastor Russell when he was 18 started a Bible Study because he wanted to prove there was no hell and no Trinity.

    The organization years later would resort to changing words in the Bible, moving commas around, inferring different meanings than the original writer intended by adding words and putting brackets around them and looking for synonyms that fit their dogma. Since that wasn’t enough they went on to write tracts with deceptive quotes, no footnotes, ellipses to detract from the context of the writings of the early church fathers and a multitude of other deceptions.

    One thing I have learned when reading Jehovah’s Witnesses material is to beware of the ellipses.

    Why are they so dogmatically opposed to Jesus being God? It would seem to me they don’t want Jesus to be God. They also don’t want Jesus to be your mediator. They do not want to give the same honor to Jesus as they give to the Father which is worship. They don’t want you to pray to Jesus. Even though it is well recoded that the early church called upon the name of Jesus and were persecuted for it.

    I will close with one thought. Do you want to be blessed?

    John 20:27-29 (27) Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here, and see my hands; and put out your hand, and place it in my side. Do not disbelieve, but believe.” 28 Thomas answered him, “My Lord and my God!” 29 Jesus said to him, “Have you believed because you have seen me? Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”

  37. 7mercies

    I look forward to making all your arguments fall flat.

    Before I do that, answer me this, if someone created Jehovah would he be The God? Also would anyone answer Proverbs 30:4?

  38. You failed to answer my point about your leaders intentionally changing Colossians 1:16.

    Stop jumping around Mr. Jehovah’s Witness and stick to the scripture you brought up and were summarily called out for.

    You stated that it was okay for scriptures to be altered by your leaders because of context. Do you actually think about the words you type?

    “Well Jehovah meant to say this so that’s how we’ll put it in the New World Translation.”

    When you start speaking for Jehovah, putting words into His mouth comes next and then there’s no limit to the abuses that can be meted out (and have been!) by these self professed representatives of Jehovah!

    Such “super fine apostles”!

    I sure wouldn’t want to be them come judgment day.

    Doug

  39. John

    So arrogant. Confidence in self can only be disappointing. Your works based religion has failed everyone who has ever relied on it. Sad. How will someone like that ever be awakened? I’ve had my fill of one of your guys claimed to be Jehovah’s witness but cast me aside as I wasn’t worth the time or effort. He used the template he was trained in called me a debater and would not even look at me and yet Christ would touch even the most vile person ( God can do that).

  40. 7mercies

    I don’t believe in Jehovah’s witness leaders…

    I think they are one of two things, either so ignorant of what the Bible says that they have to make stuff up about the end of the world. (John 8:44) Or, they are flat out lairs. I don’t know which is worse, honestly?

    I believe in Jehovah and His son Jesus, I don’t need a group of men to be my mediator. (1 Timothy 2:5)

    I think it is wrong to add things to the Bible Doug, as you mention Revelation 22:18. People who do that are going to get theirs.

    NOTE: No matter the translation, what I explained about Jesus prehuman existence is the case. I don’t care about grammar, I care about what the Bible REALLY teaches, and it teaches that Jesus was created.

  41. 7mercies

    So now that I answered your questions, please answer mine.

    “If” someone created Jehovah, would he be The God Almighty? Also, would you answer Proverbs 30:4’s challenge?

  42. Okay.

    So we aren’t talking about justifying being in the Jehovah’s Witnesses or blindly following their teachings. We’re simply debating on whether or not Christ was created right?

    I only have one question here:

    If you truly feel that way about the Watchtower leadership then why are you quoting their New World Translation when you make your points and doing so using their butchered versions of key scriptures that give credence to the argument that Christ was created?

    You can’t have it both ways. If you really do think that they are a bunch of halfwit liars then why are you using their version of the Bible?

    Doug

  43. I honestly see nothing in this scripture that would prove or disprove that Christ was created.

    Splitting hairs with the “almighty” versus “mighty” version is what JW’s are famous for. They say: “Well you know, the reason that we know Christ was created is because he isn’t referred to as “almighty”.”

    Such a total crock.

    John 1:1 clearly states that “in the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God.” You simply can’t dodge that, especially if, as you say, you don’t follow the Jehovah’s Witness slave masters or their NWT anymore.

    Here’s the thing:

    Christ was worshiped. (Matthew 28:9)

    He is spoken of as God. (John 1:1)

    He speaks of Himself as God. (John 8:58)

    By mere definition, if as a human you were to have a son, he would have the same characteristics as you i.e. he would be human. Using that same logic, Christ, as God’s only begotten son (which, by the way, implies a much more special “origin” than merely being created wouldn’t you agree?), would also be God.

    You see, I believe that people get hung up on titles. I believe that “God” is a quality as opposed to a station.

    Notice the following scripture:

    Philippians 2:5-6

    “In your relationships with one another, have the same mindset as Christ Jesus: Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;”

    This is the New International Version of the scriptures. As always the NWT takes something like this and completely turns it around to fit their preconceived ideas.

    Note the NWT version:

    “Keep this mental attitude in you that was also in Christ Jesus, who, although he was existing in God’s form, gave no consideration to a seizure, namely, that he should be equal to God.”

    The Pharisees knew this, as well as Christ’s disciples.

    John 5:8

    “For this reason they tried all the more to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.”

    Not only did the Pharisees get upset about this, but John showed complete understanding of the implications of Christ saying that God was His Father.

    Let’s step a few chapters back to see if John will elaborate more on the nature of Christ:

    John 1:1-3

    “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.

    So if you and I are to believe the scriptures and take them for what they actually say as opposed to what we may want them to say, then we would both have to accept that nothing “has been made” without Christ’s help i.e. that “without him nothing was made that has been made”.

    Here’s my belief and you can take it for what its worth 7mercies:

    I believe that God exists in three forms much like that of water. Water exists in the form of solid (ice), liquid (water), and gas (vapor).

    I believe that the scriptures bear this out because of the way that Christ is spoken of as well as the manner in which the Holy Spirit is spoken of.

    We all agree that the Father is God. Why is it such a stretch to even consider that Christ and the Holy Spirit are both manifestations of the very same God?

    I know that JW’s laugh and criticize and say that there is only one God and that 1+1+1=3.

    However, I maintain that 1x1x1=1

    I can tell you that I did my level best to prove Trinitarians wrong as a Jehovah’s Witness. I would get angry, upset, and even laugh at them. I would jump around in the scriptures trying to “out debate” them, but at the end of the day, when I would look in the mirror at myself, I knew. I knew that I was avoiding what the scriptures really teach. I was splitting hairs and ignoring key scriptures that my leadership had purposely (and wrongfully) altered to their own ends. That was when I came to terms with who God really is and that was when I decided to read His book for myself without all of the “Watchtower helps” to tell me what God wanted me to know.

    Believe me, if there had been any way possible to prove the Jehovah’s Witnesses right about this, I would still be one. I couldn’t and I did everything I could to prove them right. At the end of the day I had to be honest with myself. I lost family, friends, and reputation because of this. It was extremely painful. The key factors in my decision to leave were the Watchtower’s teachings regarding the nature of Christ and their willingness to completely alter the meaning of key scriptures to support their flawed theology.

    Leaving was terribly hard. However, I wouldn’t go back and change one single thing.

    It isn’t about winning arguments 7mercies. I can’t possibly debate with you enough to get you to change your views, not that I even should. You have a perfect right to believe in whatever manner you wish. If you want to continue to believe Christ is a created “sub-god” then be my guest.

    As we say in the South: “I have no dog in that hunt.”

    I wish you well and I’m praying that God guides you in your search for the real truth about Him. I hope you find it.

    Doug

  44. FYI: After this guy (7mercies) became belligerent and abusive I blocked him and suspended his ability to post under other accounts.

    Doug

  45. John

    Way to go Doug, great response. One other thing I came up with is that the Pharisees said that only God can forgive sins and its true, but Christ showed them that the son of man had authority to forgive sins on earth by healing the man who was lame right in front them. If He wasn’t God made in the flesh He could not do this. The fact, that you mentioned, that Christ was not only worshipped, but He allowed it. Things of Christ are a mystery as mentioned in Romans, Ephesians 3:4, Colossians 4:3 and these mysteries are revealed to the saints and no one else. I learn a lot on this blog and have developed compassion through the knowledge I’ve gained up here for JW’s, former or not. Thanks.

  46. Jodoggie

    You made very excellent points Doug.

    I avoided believing Jesus was God for the longest time. First I had to realize he was not Michael the Arch-Angel.
    The strange thing is, I always felt uncomfortable with that particular doctrine. Yet despite that discomfort,I still walked willingly into that swimming pool at Dodger Stadium and became baptized.

  47. Anonymous

    Alena
    Wow, Doug, your response was so powerful, a direct bullseye hit.

    Your accuser even admits “I will be the first to admit the J W’s got ALL their predictions wrong,” SAY WHAT, let me get this straight, they write that ALL their predictions WRONG !??*!! This non godly organisation now even admits that their governing body is not inspired by Jehovah, the child abuse, the domestic violence, I despair, what will be enough to make J W’s wake up? . When I was with J W’s I kept my questioning mind. Jesus listened to the questions of his followers, he heard their doubts. What will make people wake up ? Even after all the malicious, evil practices, people fall for these lies. God help them, please.

  48. Anonymous

    Alena
    Wow, Doug, a very powerful response, a direct bullseye hit.

    your accuser even admits that “I will be the first to admit that the J W’s got ALL their predictions WRONG. Say What! ? They admit that the very organisation they follow got “all their predictions WRONG? !*?!!
    I despair, Jesus listened to the questions and doubts of his followers, yet this evil, maliciuos organisation purposefully plans to wrench families apart, condems and judges their own followers for asking a question?? Even the governing body now admits that they are not inspired by Jehovah, what will it take, the child abuse, domestic violence, and pure mysogyny spouted out, what will make people open their minds ? There is a good life after the wtbts, that life is called freedom.

  49. JWPuzzle

    Doug, great response.
    As I was reading, I wondered how much, if at all you are effected by interacting with JWs at this level…?
    My experience with the organization was very brief and never really a theological one; rather an emotional brush, one that I thought would be nothing more than an interesting experiment. Well, it turned out to be a bit more complex. The tentacles are long reaching.

    Your comments and testimony are much appreciated.

  50. It is extremely difficult, painful and taxing.

    The old feelings well up and manifest themselves in really interesting ways. Whenever I encounter a particularly angry and abusive JW, of which there are many, I have to fight the tendency to “run and hide”.

    I repeatedly have to remind myself why I’m doing this.

    It’s for the JW innocents who desperately seek a way out of their enslavement to the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society. It’s for those who suffer at the hands of this cult.

    Doug

  51. Anonymous

    While your response was spot-on, I wish you had not watered it ever so slightly by mocking the Jehovah’s Witness mistake in his spelling of Nineveh. ((Not Niveah! Where did you learn to spell? The Kingdom Ministry School?). This brought the otherwise helpful message take on a bit of a hostile response. We can’t forget that regardless of how much a fervent JW rubs us the wrong way, it is our responsibility to love the sinner in the deceitful cult and try to love our way toward helping him/her. You being a former JW know that they do not teach incorrect spelling, and that this may have been a typo or perhaps ignorance on the part of the JW. But the same correction could have been made in a less antagonizing way and led to perhaps a much more well received tone by him. This is just my personal observation and I have seen it far too often by angry ex JWs who still can’t take enough distance from the problem to allow love to be their guiding force. And no, I’m not saying there are other accounts of the Holy Spirit speaking in anger… but not by using mockery as His resource.
    Please take this with the kindness I write it. I was a Jehovah’s Witness for 30 years and made my share of ‘angry accusations’, especially when I thought of everything they cost me. I’ve finally learned what I should have known, “you catch more bees with honey than with vinegar”.
    Raphael

  52. Anonymous

    See how easy it is to make a typo? I meant to say “you catch more FLIES with honey than with vinegar”. My typo, my bad.

  53. anonymous

    Hello Doug-
    I had been involved with a JW couple that have been coming to my door for two years, until they recently “dumped” me. I have grown close to them, and I know they care deeply for me and my family also. I expected the dump, just because of the WT stranglehold. I just want to say that the only way I have been able to navigate this relationship has been by reading this blog, every word, and also one called “evidence ministries”. Both that blog and this one taught me tactics, and more importantly, compassion, on these poor people. Without coming across your blog I would have shut the door on them, as most of my “Christian” family and friends have encouraged me to(based on the misuse of scripture 2 John1:10). Instead, I choose to believe that the very act of them being on my doorstep was an inspired witnessing opportunity, a direct gift. My doorstep, or any person who cares for them, may be the only place they are ever able to hear the truth(the real truth). So I thank you thank you thank you for all you have done here. I hung on your every word for two years. It was a guiding light.

  54. Thank you Anonymous!

    I’m hopeful that your efforts will help turn their hearts to God. You just never know how what you said to these people, even years from now, will work out for God’s glory.

    Thank you so much for your kinds words. A lot of good people just don’t “get” this blog. You are one of the few who do.

    Thank you.

    Doug

  55. I reserve the right to sarcasm, ridicule and angry replies when dealing with mean, hateful, and manipulative people who aren’t here to discuss but rather obscure and subvert the message of the gospels.

    Even Jesus showed anger. I’m sure there were those who were absolutely mortified by His use of physical violence when driving out the money lenders from the temple.

    He called the Jewish religious leaders of His time “whitewashed graves” and “blind guides”. He even called them “offspring of vipers” and told them they were from their “father the Devil”.

    While I try to be as kind as I can, when someone employs underhanded methods in an attempt to embarrass me and ridicule the message of this blog, I take it personally. When they try to imply that a prophet of God and even my Lord and Savior are on a par with their leaders, I get offended. I try to exercise as much good judgment as I can but when someone shows me that they really aren’t interested in honest debate but instead are only here to attack the real truth of the gospels, the gloves come off.

    Call me human.

    Doug

  56. I admire your work Doug.The watchtower is false and ungodly.Although I don’t believe in the trinity I know the jw is a mind controlling cult.They brainwash their members and all them are programmed to act and speak the same way when they go to people’s doors to recruit new members to their lying organisation.

  57. Thanks Jillian!

    Doug

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