1914 – 2014 What Will The Watchtower Do Now?

Jun 4, 2013 by

1914We are on the eve of a truly momentous occasion. A full one hundred years since 1914 when the followers of Charles Taze Russell prophesied that Armageddon would occur.

Of course that didn’t happen so the leaders came up with a way around their abject failure to prophesy truthfully:

“Wait. Yes Armageddon didn’t come BUT Christ took His throne in 1914 and the battle in heaven ensued. This was an INVISIBLE process but we saw the effects on the earth.”

Wow! Really? At least when con men sell the Brooklyn Bridge it is something you can actually SEE!

Then the leadership seized upon a scripture that would give them many years before their latest lie would be found out:

“Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.” – Matthew 24:34

So the people who were around during 1914 who could UNDERSTAND these events wouldn’t pass away. That is what I was taught and I’m sure if you’ve have any history in the organization you were taught the same thing. We were taught that anyone twelve and over would be part of that generation.

Okay, so if you were TWELVE in 1914 how old would you be in 2014?

If you answered 112 years old then you are a JW math genius. Do you know anybody that old? I don’t.

Obviously this is another failure on the part of the not so “faithful slave” and this pattern has continued to repeat itself through the history of their organization.

I think that 2014 will mark a mass departure from the organization by millions of Jehovah’s Witnesses who are fed up and tired of being lied to.

Doug Shields is an activist against religious oppression, control and abuse. He has a lot of experience dealing with these issues because he was an active Jehovah’s Witness himself for over twenty-three years. Doug has been privileged to help elders, ministerial servants, full time pioneers and even a circuit overseer to find the strength and determination to face the painful truth about the Watchtower Bible And Tract Society.

If you would like to have Doug speak at your church, meetup or other event you can contact him here.

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285 Comments

  1. Nelly

    Wow, you have a point!!! I have never made out that math but it is so true. Thank you for the information I truly appreciate it.

    Today when my son had a part in the ministerial training I almost cried because he is doing that because we taught them this religion! I was proud because he is such a great speaker but sad that I had inculcated this religion on him.

    I only went to see him and support him but truthfully kept thinking about people’s comments and yes, kept telling myself “what hypocrites”!!!

    Thank you Doug

  2. You can’t live in the past Nelly. You can’t blame yourself. You did the best you could with the information that you had at the time. You honestly believed that the Jehovah’s Witnesses had the truth. We all did. That is what makes it so tough, so terribly painful when we come to the brutal realization that the Watchtower is wrong and willfully deceptive in its practices.

    It stinks that we all have to go through that horrific process. To realize that something you hold so precious and dear, the one thing in your life that is pure and good and free from hypocrisy, is in fact just as hypocritical and filled with just as much deception and lies as any other powerful organization, carries a lot of pain and trauma.

    But…you get over it. You learn, you live and you move on with your life. You come to the realization that nobody and no thing is perfect. We learn to forgive others and then we finally learn to forgive ourselves.

    Doug

  3. Nelly

    Doug thank you truly I guess what I have to do is forgive myself. I just haven’t gotten there yet. You are right, something I though of was so true, so pure and when I look back it’s not. How do I act with my family? I am so sad because I don’t want them to hurt the way I am but in the long run I don’t want them to find out late in their years and look back and say “I gave up so much of my time to this organization?” That’s what I think. My mother died 6 years ago and I didn’t spend as much time with her as I wish I would have because “no you shouldn’t go to worldly parties” “you shouldn’t celebrate that” “you shouldn’t give her that” I remember I went to Las Vegas with her a few months before she died and she wanted to go to a show and because I found out that there was “SOME” nudity I didn’t take her! How stupid! We still had a good time in Vegas and I try to remember those good times. Thank you for listening or should I say reading my post. Have a great weekend.

  4. Been there done it and got tee shirts.

    Yes it is easy for us to beat ourselves up but that is falling for the very same self loathing and guilt that has been foisted on us by the Watchtower. Same loop but we go about finding a different reason to feel bad about ourselves. The end result is the same.

    Why not change that vicious cycle? Learn from this experience and determine that you’ll make up for it with the relationships you have now. Start having joy in your life instead of sadness and regret.

    You can’t change the past…you can only change the future.

    Doug

  5. Iown Mylife

    Hi, guys & gals, I just wanted to join in, same like you, I missed out on almost 30 years of birthdays and holidays with a bunch of extended family. But now making up for it. I’m looking for cards nearly every week to send to someone or several. Last year was our first Halloween to give out candy at the door and it was so much fun that we’re making plans now so this year will be even more fun. We’re going to take photos of the kids in their costumes and have the garage door up and sit out there greeting everyone. There’s gonna be little gift bags of candy and dollar bills. (No scary stuff, I don’t like that.)

    This year will be grandkid’s first Christmas. We’re getting a live tree and doing everything that goes with it. I don’t think there’s a thing wrong with it. But even if I did I would do it anyway!

    It really hurts to think of all the time wasted but that’s what is so good about getting into all the holidays – takes your mind off all the sadness!!!

  6. Pamela

    I’m looking forward to what The Watchtower Society does about this…what “new light” can they come up with to dig them out of the pit of lies they’ve told for so long? I’m so thankful I’m done with them. So thankful my husband…who was raised “in the truth”, is agreeable with me. I’m praying that so many more Witnesses come to their sensed and have their eyes opened as so many of us have!

  7. I’m big on Halloween. I’m known as the guy “with all the candy”. I overbuy every year and put double handfuls in the kids bags. I’m making up for lost time.

  8. There are always going to be those who blindly believe everything the Watchtower teaches in spite of the mountain of proof that they’ve lied to and manipulated their followers for over a hundred years.

    I liken this to the Nazi regime and how many people blindly followed Hitler in spite of seeing everything going on around them. Then I think about those few brave souls who risked their lives and reputations to fight against the Nazi regime by helping Jews and even plotting to take Hitler out (as in the movie Valkyrie). These people risked everything to live up to their own ideals and principles.

    I think that being true to one’s own principles is the highest form of truth that there is. To be anything less is to be nothing but a hypocrite.

  9. Anonymous

    Poor bitter man….bet you were disfellowshiped cause you didnt cut it as one of JEHOVAHS WITNESSES…..and now you are mad….TIPICAL.

  10. gabriel

    Lol…..hey little doug…….bet your an old bitter man cause you were disfellowshiped cause you didnt cut it as one of JEHOVAHS WITNESSES…..and now your mad…..TIPICAL OF ALL APOSTATES.

  11. gabriel

    Same goes to little pamela and little lown……….

  12. Never been DF. Might want to read a bit before you try to throw me into a neat little box like everything else in your life.

  13. Not mad. Just educated. You should try it sometime.

  14. Is everyone who disagrees with you “little”? Who’s bitter really? Sounds like you should sniff some of what you’re shoveling.

  15. Spell check much? Grammar check much?

    You need to go back to the KM school and get your money back.

  16. Ignorance and arrogance are a horrible combination and the organization is full of both. Thanks for confirming my long held opinion Gabriel although I would prefer that you wake up and smell the coffee.

  17. NELLY

    Anonymous (why anonymous) Not even your first name?

    You need to see outside the box you are blinded by what we have been told year after year meeting after meeting, look outside the box and don’t believe everything they tell us. When someone takes the joy away from you, you will see that they are not who they say they are. Do you really believe that these people would give their life for you? Tell me this, how many people in your congregation have actually invited you to their home for a meal? for a soda? for a glass of water? If they haven’t even done that do you truly believe that they would give their life for you? I thought they would many years, Many years I thought my children that the Jehovah’s Witnesses was the way to go but sadly I came to the reality that they don’t care about me, they don’t care about my children and don’t even care if I am there or not. I would go to EACH AND EVERY ONE OF THE MEETINGS when I got sick and had to go to the hospital by emergency do you think anybody called? anybody came to my aid? anybody came to visit? NO NO NO! I then opened my eyes and now I concentrate on being with my children and my true friends not those people who claim to be “YOUR BROTHERS” and never even care about you!

  18. Same Manner

    Ad Hominim is not an answer to the comments posted by the author. With that said, Although JWs claim to be the exclusive people of God , they do not claim to be inspired and their understanding of Scripture is subject to error but that does not disqualify them as God’s prople. In support of 1914. Daniel Chapter Nine, provides a “formula” that fortells the time when Jesus would first come. In hind sight, the prophesy is understood. Again, based on scripture, the year 1914 is derrived. Although , Jesus arrived in 1914(according to that calculation),Armagedon (“that day and hour”) did not – but that does not disqualify 1914- There is no mathemaical formula stated in the Bible for calculating Jehovah’s Day. The Apostles saw the resurected Jesus and yet died without seeing Jehovah’s Day. Fleshly jews continue to reject Daniel 9:25 referring to Jesus although the scripture is crystal clear -and so is 1914. Relative to dan9:25, 2013 have passed and relative to 1914, 99 years. and Jehovah’s Day is still coming as a thief in the night in the future according to scripture. This is the question: What is the evidence of Jesus’s return?

  19. I love this.

    Have you ever had an original thought or do you get all of your material lifted straight from the Watchtower?

    Start thinking with your brain instead of the programmed drivel that drips dryly from the stale pages of the Watchtower and Awake.

  20. NELLY

    I see these comments by those “true opposes” and sadly see that it is a brain washing. The other day I was talking with a JW and he got his identity stolen and told me “I know that we are in the last seconds of this system” just because his identity was stolen. I felt sorry for him and for his blindness. In the assemblies they say that we are in the last days and lately they are saying that we are in the “last minutes”. The last assembly they said we were in the last seconds. Of course they are scared! I would be too if I wasn’t educating myself and seeing what is true and what is not true. What did the Watchtower do with ALL THOSE MILLIONS they got from the sale of the buildings in New York? they are actually thinning the watchtower and awake, the brochures are thinner, the books are also so where is all the money going? It’s going into someone’s pockets.

  21. I agree Nelly! It’s all an elaborate “shell game”. However, now they have a whole new generation of willing stooges to pay the Watchtower their “wages”. Most of the old hands have either died off or figured it out.

    Sad.

  22. I know one guy that was truly Gung Ho about the organization. he was always pioneering when I was young. He’s in his sixties now. He lives in a tent in the woods and walks to the Kingdom Hall. He is certain that Armageddon is coming at any moment because he can’t hold a job or get his life together. Some things never change.

    Sad.

  23. Nelly

    Every assembly and once a month they tell the congregation what they have donated. They are encouraged to DONATE MORE. More money and constantly have new issues “VOTED” on by the congregation. I thought we didn’t vote? Humm

  24. Jodoggie

    I was up late last night composing a letter for my Jehovah’s Witness sister to tell her about all the false predictions of the Jehovah’s Witnesses. Under Pastor Russell it was taught that Jesus came invisibly in 1874. Pastor Russell also taught and predicted that Armageddon would happen in 1914. When Armageddon did not come in 1914 Pastor Russell predicted it would come in 1915. Rutherford took over in 1916 he predicted Armageddon would happen in 1920. Both Rutherford and Russell stated in their writings that these dates were “clearly marked in scripture.” Rutherford in his writings went so far as to call those who did not believe his predictions “DDs” which was an abbreviation for “Dumb Dogs.” It was around 1929 that Rutherford changed the invisible coming of Jesus from 1874 to 1914.

    When I read a previous poster write, “Again, based on scripture, the year 1914 is derrived” I shake my head with sadness. There are no dates in the Bible my friend. Therefore the methods used to calculate the numerous false predictions the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society have made have all been of human origin not scriptual origin. The Apostle Paul referred to this practice of not keeping to the scariptures as “Vain Babblings.”

    What Jehovah’s Witnesses need to ask themselves is this, Who has benefited from these false predictions? The answer is obvious, the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society and its leaders have benefited. They have made money hand over fist, they live in their luxuriously appointed penthouse apartments drive the comapny paid for LEXUS and take lavish holiday trips all on the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society’s dime.

    Having attended meetings and Bible studies for the first 16 years of my life, I am familiar with all the excuses, “We never claimed to be inspired” or “We never prophesied in Jehovah’s name” or “Even the Apostles made mistakes.”
    It is so sad that confronted with the “Society’s” past history of false prophesies those who are part of that organization do not go to the Bible for guidance they go to the literature of the false prophets. Would a false prophet or a false teacher admit they were a false prophet or a false teacher?

    How can an organization claim to be “God’s sole mouthpiece on earth” but not be inspired? One cannot happen without the other. There are plenty of articles out there in which the “Society” has claimed to have received angelic messages, mostly during the Rutherford years. In a court of law Fred Franz went so far as to say that Jehovah God was the editor of the Watchtower. Russell stated that his dates were “not of human origin.” or that his numbers ” are God’s numbers and he couldn’t change them if he wanted to.” But of course history shows Charles Russell often changed the numbers.

    The organization excuses their behavior by stating that the “apostles made mistakes too.” There is a very interesting fact about Jehovah that is present throughout the Holy Scriptures. Jehovah often chose imperfect men to deliver his messages, his pronouncements, and his prophecies perfectly. If you are following a person or organization that constantly changes their doctrines and their prophecies you need to stop being a follower of men and be a follower of Christ.

    In conclusion, Jehovah’s Witnesses now nearing the 100 year anniversary of 1914 need to ask themselves what was accomplished in the past with their false predictions. Did those predictions help to advance God’s plan of salvation or did they merely serve to stir up controversies and arguments oh and sell books.
    Jesus said we would know his people by the love they show for one another. It is not loving to call people dumb dogs or apostates or workers of Satan because they did not believe a prophecy that turned out to be false.

  25. timsis

    My brother, a life long, “brought up in the truth” sweet man, left this world by suicide October 15, 2010 (53 yrs old) because I believe he could not leave this “cult.” I left @25 years old, it took me so long–there was no help to “deprogram” in those days. I am now 59 & the worse toll was the shunning, the judgement, the lack of self esteem, no education. “The world was ending–why are you not pioneering–you can’t go to college.” Fear kept me in a box. If only my brother could have left but i know how he could not, with all his friends as witnesses, his wife & 2 children, his in laws. They destroy lives & I so fear they will destroy his 2 childrens lives, ages 12 & 14. They are being taught to do menial work so they can be enslaved–such brainwashing & so sad. I can tell they fear me as an “outsider” “worldly person” when they see me (they are kept away). I never spoke against the witnesses to either my brother or his family or anyone because i thought one day my brother would leave. I did not want to judge him & i wanted to leave the door open. I miss him so much. How many lives have been ruined by this terrible mind controlled cult that masks itself as a “loving religion.” It separates & destroys families, relationships & encourages economic poverty & death in the name of Jesus. I cant begin to tell you the terrible toll it has taken on our family of 7 children who do not speak to one another — in some cases for 40 years. It is all so profoundly sad.

  26. Nelly

    timsis:

    I am so saddened to hear what happened to your brother and I can tell you that the pressure is very hard. I go to meetings because my children and husband go but slowly I have made them look outside the box. I can’t believe the hypocrisy. I sit there and say “are you serious”? I will slowly make my family realize that we have been lied to. My children are all professionals and that’s probably the reason they look down at us. Oh well I don’t really care. Wish you the best and hope you can one day talk with your nephews and make them realize that “THE TRUTH” was actually A BIG LIE!!!!!!

  27. Nelly

    You should see the things that they say at the meetings lately. They are telling people that REGARDLESS OF WHAT THEY HEAR, they must maintain FAITH. Yeah right! they are covering their basis because they know things are getting hot. Thanks for the additional information.

  28. How do you cover up a lie.

    Call it “The Truth”

  29. Thanks for that stark and unflinching glimpse into the real fruits of being in the Jehovah’s Witnesses.

    It is so sad. My experience has been similar.

    Thank you for sharing this.

    You have my deepest sympathy.

    Doug

  30. PlaceCleverNameHere

    I’ve been lurking here for the last couple weeks and finally plucked up enough to say something. This subject is especially interesting to me because I’m a 3rd generation “born-in” and left 2 years ago. My grandfather started studying in the early 70s and has never been one to shy away from calling out malarkey but for whatever reason when I broach the subject of the “end” hitting in the mid 1970s he’s totally mum. Granted I was born in the mid 80s so I have no first hand account of what happened back then, but didn’t brothers and sisters run up to the gills with crazy amounts of debt and teens not having to worry about going to college because “the end” was right around the corner? Well to me it seems that corner is just another block and another block until you wind up in another county altogether. And the “new light” is just another way to keep folks in the dark.

    I was fortunate enough to swap my rose colored glasses for heavy duty specs and common God-given sense to wake up. I’ve never been more in tune with the truth about the truth than I am right now at the ripe ol’ age of 26. And Mr. Shields I find your posts to be quite frankly awesome and they ring true, so thanks and keep ’em comin!!

    As a side note how or why is this “anonymous/gabriel” person even here? Don’t they realize the harsh penalties from the elders if it was ever discovered that they not only visit but peruse and *clutch the pearls* comment on so-called apostate sites such as this?! Tsk tsk gabriel, you best mind your betters before all SHEOL breaks loose!!

  31. You posted one of the coolest remarks to my blog that I’ve seen! You write very well.

    Very nicely done and thank you for the compliment. It is much appreciated!

    Doug

  32. I agree 100%!

    Doug

  33. PlaceCleverNameHere

    Ha! Well thank you very much. Just my two cents on a long standing problem the witnesses need to finally fess up to or just deal with. The ever present fact that these many, many dates are unfortunately the unicorns of the religion. Nothing better than a horse with a super cool sword on its head….doh welp too bad they don’t exist!! What a waste.

  34. Michel

    Jodoggie – your logic is impeccable, and for that, I thank you. I’m a JW who is full of doubts, and I’m relieved to see that there are others out there who have the same reations as I have. Several of your statements deserve more in-depth discussions however, and I’m hoping that both you and Doug can give me more insight. The first statement is in regard to the JW argument that “even the apostles made mistakes”. Really? When? I’ve heard this argument too; and I believe that they’re referring to Acts 1:6-9 (where the disciples are asking Jesus if he is restoring the kingdom ‘at this time”). This statement was made immediately before Jesus’ resurrection. Is this the sole scripture that “proves” that the Apostles were mistaken, and thus it is acceptable for God’s organization to make mistakes too? If so, then – oh boy! Since when does asking a question constitute a belief? And is there any Scriptural evidence that Christ’s disciples preached that the Kingdom would be restore at this time? Furthermore, this question was asked prior to the time when the disciples received Holy Spirit at Pentacost; didn’t Jesus say (at John 14:25,26) that the Father would send a helper to teach “you all things”? Wouldn’t this mean that Scriptural insight is guided by Holy Spirit, and thus is not subject to mistakes? These are my thoughts, but I feel that my logic needs filling out a bit. help?

    In regard to another point that you made : Could you also please give me some substantiation that the Watchtower leaders live lavish life-styles? I’m not doubting you, I simply need some facts. That being said, i was wondering if you, Jodoggie and Doug, have ever read about the Olin Moyle incident? If not, Google it – it’s an interesting case. Please, to both you and Doug – I’m in need of some facts on this subject of lifestyles at Bethel – especially since I read that Witnesses who were helped in Katrina were required to sign over all home insurance proceeds to the WTS.

    Again – thanks for your post; especially where you ask “did those (false) predictions help to advance God’s plan of salvation or did they merely serve to stir up controversies…and sell more books? “. A very enjoyable and enlightening post.

  35. john

    I am sorry you had to go through that. My family and I have experienced that as well.

  36. You know John, I’ve thought long and hard about it and I have to say that I’m not sorry. As a matter of fact I’m exceedingly glad that I went through this. It made me a much stronger person. It made me research the scriptures to figure out what they really teach versus what the Watchtower TOLD me they teach. I had to grow some muscles that most of us never get to grow because of my experience in the group.

    Was it tough? You bet!
    Were there times of self doubt? Plenty!
    Is there anything I can’t accomplish because of what I have learned about myself in this process? Not a thing!

    Thanks John!

  37. Aman Ofgod

    Dear bro Sheilds, I am an apostate but a happy one. I am not bitter as the watchtower says because i have the happiness of Christ. Some times I just laugh at myself and ask how seeing ways in which we were fooled and lied to by the watchtower. I am almost certain the watchtower has the highest number of failed prophecies as a christian religion but yet still they have the truth. Isnt that amazing. Watchtower preach that there is no hellfire…well with the amount of false prophecies they really need to offer some form on consolation that there is no fire in hell…..watchtowerites look at these two verse Mark 9:44 — COMPLETELY removedfrom jw bibles. What are the Jehovah’s Witness missing?
    “Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.”
    Mark 9:46 — COMPLETELY removed from jw bibles. What are the Jehovah’s Witness missing?
    “Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.”
    Revelation 19:20
    And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. (hellfire isnt it?) now compare KJV & NWT and spot the deception
    Rev 20 verse 14Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.
    Now in the watchtower bible it says this means the second death. ( yes i agree it means the second death but it also show how the false prophets will DIE.

  38. Nelly

    We were given a watchtower and told to mark it “DO NOT DESTROY’ this one has “UPDATED” many old thoughts and Teachings. I wish you could see it Doug.

  39. You’re welcome to send it to me as a scan: dougshields1@cox.net

    Thanks,

    D

  40. Samuel Baidoo

    if so of the halowen, then why is it that the witnesees trace the oringn of the halowen back to paganism? have YOU all do the reasearch urself for that celebs? am not blaming any but asking who is right, the jw or people around

  41. The origins of just about any custom found anywhere on the planet can be traced back to paganism. Why? Because Christianity is a comparatively new concept. It is only 2000 years old. I can look at just about any custom, including those endorsed by the Watchtower leaders, and find either a violent, pagan or other unseemly reason for not honoring it.

    Did you know that the Caduceus wand is a symbol for the medical profession? Yet it has its roots steeped deeply in all sorts of magical practices. That doesn’t prevent you from visiting a doctor does it?

    Did you know that the necktie was originated by mercenaries who killed people for money? Yet a necktie is pretty much required dress for any JW anywhere.

    Origins of anything can’t condemn the present just as your ancestors can’t determine your right to choose your destiny, your religious or political views today.

  42. Samuel Baidoo

    what bothers me now is: if the watchtower is not the truth then what is next of a religion capable of upholding to God’s standard? who are the ones doing the work described at Mathew 24:14? am not doubting what all you are saying here especially what Doug Shields is saying. so God will come and destroy the world just like that? he must surely have a people whom he will save. Doug Shields u are left with the being found void in your life due to the fact that u are not pinpoint in pointing to a specific religion, rather saying u are not into any sect or so. but my worries now for u Doug Shields and the rest here are: we all here should find it at the other page of life’s outlook to find the people whom Jesus meant they shall be saved if the world is to end. Doug Shields! do not merely conclude that it doesn’t matter any more to search for the truth, if so then there is no need to read the Bible, merely leaving a religion by later finding out it not truth path and sitting aside is not safe, am not saying I have found one, but after reading your blog here along with others on other page of the internet mas put me into doubts and panics with which some dedicate themselves for this JW.org/WTBTS. am still having the convince that there must be a truth religion. here in Ghana is where I am. west of Africa /30 years

    take care Doug Shields!

  43. samuel

    can u scan it and send to me via baidoofiles0277@gmail.com ?

  44. Aman Ofgod

    the good new is as simple as abc….the gospel of christ. Be witnesses of me in the most distant parts of the earth. Another clue that it is not by watchtower effort can be found at hebrew 1 verse 13-14 Heb 1:13 But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?
    Heb 1:14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?
    We are therefore encourage to seek Christ and not an organization. Furthermore there were seven congregations revelation. Where there any without fault? no but those with strange doctrines would suffer consequences. eg rev 2:14 doctrine of balaam and rev 2 : 15 doctrine of nicolaitians

  45. If you read the New Testament, Samuel, without the Watchtower blinders on, you will find that salvation is not with other people. It is solely with Jesus Christ. He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life. Nobody and nothing else can do anything to stop or start that. The decision lies with you and you alone.

    Romans 8:38-39

    For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

    Titus 3:5

    he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit,

    Affiliation and membership with a group or groups of people only serves to cloud that single truth that is so astoundingly simple that most people, including you, miss it completely.

    You should read the New Testament without the Watchtower “helps” and then decide what God wants you to do. Then you will know just as I do that membership doesn’t get you anywhere. Repentance, baptism in the name of Jesus Christ, and faith in His sacrifice are the ONLY things that save us from sin.

    Doug

  46. Anonymous

    if then membership wouldn’t get me anywhere why was it that in the first century the apostles used to have organized congregation? was it a sect? cong.? denom.? or church? can u be alone at home serving God without joining a fellowship? I have spotted some site that are also telling of how Russell used to be a member of freemasonry, how the subsequent quote of his own statement of this, I was shocked! but what bothers me is how Matthew 24:14 used to give the command, it looks like the work shall be carried out by specific group, am totally confused!!! how can I get to know that am serving God well if not with a fellow to share ideas on god’s word?

    Samuel baidoo

  47. Anonymous

    u may be right!!! are u professor of everything? u know too much about everything. thanks. but according to your story on this site why u left the WT, which member of the Christian denomination are now?

    Samuel Baidoo

  48. Samuel,

    I’m not saying that you should go live in a cave. Why must every JW take what I say and run it into the “ridiculous”?

    What I am saying is that YOU don’t need anyone’s official “stamp of approval” to serve God. You can choose to serve God without anyone’s approval.

    Look at Abraham.

    Was he a member of any group or sect or worldwide organization? Nope. Yet he was used by God.

    What about Noah? Was he some member of the pre-flood JW’s? Nope. Yet he was chosen to build the ark.

    What did Christ say? “Wherever two or more are gathered in my name, there I am in your midst.”

    Have you read the New Testament yet? I’m going to assume you haven’t judging from your recent series of questions. You should read the entire New Testament in any other version than the New World Translation. It will open your eyes and answer a lot of your questions.

    With regard to “the commission” Christ gave at Matthew 24:14, I can only ask WHO was it given to?

    Note the words of James at James 3:1:

    “Not many of you should become teachers, my fellow believers, because you know that we who teach will be judged more strictly.”

    Why would he say that if all Christians are required to teach? Kind of makes the whole “door to door” thing look ridiculous doesn’t it?

    Doug

  49. I’m not a member of any “denomination”. Neither were the early Christians. They were simply Christians. They believed and followed the teachings of Christ. That is what I am.

    No I’m not a “professor of everything” Samuel. However I am very well aware of what I believe and why. I take what I believe very seriously and it is based entirely on the real teachings of the Bible and not someone’s watered down and twisted “version” of it. I had to read the New Testament over and over. I had to research the Greek and actually learned Greek in order to figure out how the Watchtower had translated their “Bible”. I saw the glaring inconsistencies and errors in the New World Translation and realized that what I suspected was in fact true:

    I, and my entire family, had been duped by charlatans who wanted to control every aspect of our lives using religion as the vehicle.

    Your comment about me being a “professor” seems quite obnoxious Samuel. Up until now you’ve been quite cordial. Why the sudden change? Why would you lash out at someone like me who merely answers your questions, quite spectacularly I might add, and asks nothing in return but that you search the scriptures for yourself?

    Sounds like you’ve got some serious issues with the Jehovah’s Witnesses and quite frankly, I believe that you’re scared to death of making a mistake. That should at least tell you something about your current choice of religious affiliation and how it limits your ability to discern truth from fiction.

    Are you really after the truth or are you just looking for a blanket so you’ll feel safe and warm in your bed at night?

    Doug

  50. Marc

    Hi Doug,

    I’m really glad I found your blog. I too am a former witness. Long story short, I was DF’d in 2008. Started my way back to the organization in late 2012 and after almost 6 months of study, observation and serious meditation realized I could not in good conscience go back to it. What I heard, saw and experienced was so distinctly contrary to what I read and know in scripture I had to ask myself one simple question: “Could I in good conscience invite someone else to become a JW based on what I now know?” (since “disciple making” is a requisite for any JW) – I could only answer no and that’s when I knew it would be disingenuous to be reinstated (ironically, it’s more difficult to be reinstated than to be df’d…). And I was very close to it. I had met with the brothers on two occasions and they were preparing to meet with me a third time and were positively enthusiastic about this third time. I have no bitterness toward the organization. I simply came to several conclusions based on research and observation. Being outside the bubble actually helped me see things much more objectively (and no, I have not given myself over to sin and debauchery as most JW’s might reason as to why I chose not to go back. I have a beautiful wife and lead a normal life). One thing I did notice is there seems to be a definite attempt to distance the present organization from it’s Russell/Rutherford beginnings. I had been part of the organization since 1964 (my birth year) and recall from time to time they would actually quote from them and speak of them proudly as part of their spiritual heritage. Now, … not even a blip. Won’t speculate on the reasons, just an observation from a longtimer. Anyway brother, I think you’re doing a fine thing here and I appreciate your calm rationale in communicating about a very difficult and emotional subject for many people.

  51. Funny that we were both born in the same year.

    Thanks for the kudos.

    We’ve seen the same stuff so we have a very common experience in the JW”s.

    1975 must have been quite confusing for you.

    Doug

  52. Jodie

    I hope that one day Jehovah’s Witnesses will wake up and realize that their door to door work they have been doing for the past 120+ years dishonors Jesus. Jesus said no one knows the day or the hour not even the Son and the Jehovah’s Witnesses have been trying to make Jesus out to be a liar all the way back to the time of Russell. They have built up a billion dollar publishing empire selling false prophecies. Does that sound like the kind of organization Jesus would use?
    Recently my niece who is a Jehovah’s Witness posted some glowing comments about a recent Watchtower Issue. I left a comment asking if they were still telling young people there was not enough time left in this system of things to get an education or start a career. I will admit I was a bit snarky when I added that I had been 9 the first time I heard that and now am 52 so it was “Bad advise from God’s Sole Mouthpiece” and better advise could be found in the Bible.
    My niece replied that they had never taught that. I pasted the excerpt from the Awake on Facebook and immediately was defriended by my niece, my sister and my sister’s husband who is not a Jehovah’s Witness.
    Here is the moral of the story, Jesus said if we followed him we would never be ashamed. Jehovah’s Witnesses are ashamed of their past writings and predictions because they were and still are following men and not Jesus.

  53. mike

    Marc, I would really like you to expound on what you “heard, saw, and experienced”. I am in the process of leaving the WT Society, and I’m wondering if you have experienced the same things that i have. I am reading “Crisis of Conscience” by Ray Franz, and I must say that this ex-Governing Body member has confirmed and validated every doubt I’ve ever had about the WT organization. As for my personal observations about the JWs, i have been very disappointed in the personal integrity of many in the congregations. The halls seem rife with backing-biting gossip, sanctimoniousness, and mean-natured jealousy. I compare my JW friends with those “in the world”, and I really see no difference. I cannot reconcile the fact that Witnesses claim to be drawn by Jehovah – one would think that they would be better than most people – but they simply aren’t.

  54. Marc

    That’s the year I was baptized… at 10 years old! February 1975. I didn’t understand fully why there was such a push for baptism at the time, but as the years progressed I came to understand the full picture better. I do recall the emphasis on 6,000 years of man’s existence and the end of God’s rest, etc. and that there was excitement in the air but at my young age and since I had been around it since birth it didn’t mean much to me other than if my big brother and sister were ready for baptism so was I lol.

  55. It is the man that makes the religion, not the other way around.

    I’ve met really decent and high value people who don’t believe in God at all. I’ve met people who were the worst scum of the earth and they were hyper religious.

    Jesus said that we would know His people by their fruits. Amen!

  56. I was baptized in 1976 at the ripe old age of twelve.

    I remember very well the excitement that finally Jehovah was going to bring Armageddon on the “wicked old system of things”. Everybody was quitting their jobs, selling their homes, jacking up their credit cards and personal debt and taking their kids out of school.

    That was thirty-eight years ago.

    Funny how the Watchtower remains convinced that they are right when they’ve been wrong so many many many times.

  57. Marc

    Mike,I feel you. There’s too much to say here. Maybe someday we’ll be able to chat more. But I’ll explain one thing that struck me. Reading the 2012 annual meeting report from the JW.org site. Mind you, this was on the actual site not someone’s paste and cut and I wasn’t purposely trying to find something to complain about as some do lol. There was a summary on a talk given on a new understanding on the relationship of the Governing body and the Faithful and Discreet Slave. Basically, the gist was that the GB and FS are kind of the same now (this was clarified in the July 2013 WT). What stood out more so to me though was a comment along the lines in that talk that there has always been a group of faithful men in NY acting as a GB for the FS. The allusion is to the early part of the 20th century. Well, I’ve read enough and been around long enough to know that while there were men of faith acting as a board or in some advisory capacity (legal, editing, etc.), it wasn’t until the early seventies that the GB as we know it today was formed. Early on in the modern day org, all the writing was done by either Russell or Rutherford – there was no GB as we know it today directing the work – it was the presidents (read “Faith on the March” by A.H. MacMillan). Knorr began to make some changes but again this was in the 1950’s right? Who authored those articles early on? Whose sermons were on the phonographs? Russell and Rutherford. It’s obvious it was the presidents and many viewed them at that time as the FS during their respective terms. If there was a true GB that wouldn’t be the case but the annual meeting talk made it seem as if it was. Anyone newer to the organization would happily agree that yes, this is right. But long timers would have to know this is masking the real situation. It seems the current FS or teaching committee is purposely trying to make the modern GB seem more relevant than it had been – and I don’t understand why they would do so. That doesn’t sit right with me and it seems very blatent and insidious to say the least. Now that is my own view based on my personal knowledge and experience. I don’t know what they’re up to but something is amiss to me. For what it’s worth, I served in pretty much every capacity within the org (pioneer, MS, Elder, assembly programs and organization, finances, etc.) and when I was DF’d was serving as an elder in a foreign language cong. I read “C of C” about a year before I started going back to meetings and would say Franz nailed it. Actually, his description of GB meetings matches pretty much most of the Elder meetings I attended. Despite our best intentions, when it comes down to it, people are people and at times our imperfect personalities get the best of us. Most of the cong would be surprised if they learned of the arguments and clashes elders have at times – yet didn’t Paul and Barnabus have a “sharp outburst”? My thought is, if serving with the JW’s makes you happy, go for it. Some are very happy and despite what many claim, not every family suffers. I know some very happy JW’s. On the other hand, if you are filled with doubt and questions or your heart isn’t in it why stay. I guess that would apply to any situation in our life right?

  58. Excellent comment Marc and one with tremendous thought and experience behind it.

    Thank you for contributing to this blog.

  59. Marc

    Thanks Doug. This is a great forum. Keep up the good work!

  60. We will continue the good fight.

  61. Mike

    I think that there is a very strong circular dynamic between man and his religion, Doug – something akin to the negative feedback loops that one finds in physiological systems. In other words, we “make our religion”, and, in turn, our religion also ‘makes us”. For example, before I became a Witness, I was somehow more caring and involved in helping my fellow man. When I became a Witness, however, I became more of an automaton – as long as I rode around in a car group every week, I was doing my duty in helping my fellow man – I was showing neighborly love. But – If I saw a homeless man on the street, I would tell myself that Jehovah would help that poor creature someday if the man’s heart was a good one. I made no effort to help or even acknowledge that person’s humanity on an emotional level. In other words, my religion was shaping me into a person that was emotionally detached from humanity. “Love” was measured by how many hour I spent each month in field service. And when you have 100 people in a congregation acting and feeling this way, then indeed these people do “make the religion” into one that is based on “dogma” rather than “love”. They become a people who are very self-satisfied because they have been chosen by Jehovah (as Christ said, “no one comes to me unless the father draws him”) . Jehovah will destroy everyone who isn’t drawn by Jehovah, so why should we care about them on a truely emotional level?

    Since leaving the Witnesses, I have been making a consciencious effort to be kinder and more empathetic to everyone. I am trying to make myself more Christ-like; I am looking at myself as being no better than anyone else. I don’t want to feel that I am worthy of life, but you aren’t because you won’t take the latest WT and Awake. I want my religion to make me into a person that Christ would love; and I want to make my religion into one that will draw others by its fruits. I really believe, as you do, that Christ will know his people by their fruits. We have to love others intensely from the heart – and I just don’t’ think we can do this by merely spending the published monthly average of hours in field service each month.

    Thanks for letting me vent, Doug. And thank you for your comment – it made me think and define my thought processes. Good dialogue is a great way to clarify what the heart truely believes – and for that, I thank you.

  62. Nelly

    A new Watchtower says that the beginning “actually” started in 1919 instead of 1914 as they have said many many times before. Giving them an extra 5 years for the “end of days”. The Watchtower today said that we should “not listen to those apostates” that only the JW organization should guide the flock. So incredible. I thank God for allowing me to find your blog I truly do.

  63. Nelly

    Ah, I forgot they also just published a ‘new clarified bible”

  64. That’s the thing about made up BS. You have to revise it on a regular basis. It is as if God didn’t get it right the first time. The Mormon bible has also had many many revisions since it’s release.

  65. Apparently the free thinking former JW’s who speak up are making a dent in the Watchtower’s income stream. Good! They need to have money problems!

  66. Mike!

    Brilliant! Positively brilliant commentary on exactly what happens when one becomes a JW.

    Thank you so much for “venting”.

    Insightful. Candid. Amazingly introspective.

    I remember my mother relating how she was in the hospital with another “sister”. They were sitting there visiting a sick JW and a candystriper (someone that volunteers their time to help the sick) came through to check on their friend.

    The sister leaned over and said: “She thinks she’s making a difference.” and rolled her eyes.

    That is exactly why I find the artificial, “automaton” like, contrived actions of JW’s to be so distasteful. It isn’t that what they do or don’t do is necessarily good or bad. It is that they do it out of compulsion instead of from the heart. It is as if there is a calculated “payoff” for everything they do.

    2 Corinthians 9:7

    Each man should give what he has decided in his heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.

    It is truly sad that the rank and file Jehovah’s Witnesses have missed out on that very real principle in the Christian life.

    Doug

  67. Nelly

    Mike: You truly are acting Christlike and I totally agree with you and what you are doing. I too have started concentrating on my family whom I neglected so much. My family is coming late December and will probably spend Christmas with them. I love them and am happy to be with them and will not give up the opportunity to spend time with them just because JW tell me not to. Thanks for the courage.

  68. Nelly

    I once mentioned that I had volunteered at my kids school and was scolded because “I could have used that time in field service”. I never mentioned volunteering again although all through my kids schooling I volunteered many hours helping my kids teachers, helping the homeless, helping many associations not related to JW. But I met some of the most amazing people. Unlike some of the hypocrites at the Kingdom Hall.

  69. Mike

    THank you so muhch, Doug for your kind words regarding my post. As you know, it is sometimes difficult to cut ties with an organization like the JWs – it really does demand some serious analysis. Your website is such a gift because it encourages dialogue. The Bible states that “iron sharpens iron”, and your site certainly promotes this. You prompt us to put our experiences into words – and this isn’t always easy. But it is healthy.

    As for the Witness and the candy stiper – this rings so true to what I’ve witnessed over the years. All I can say is that the priest who crossed onto the other side of the road (to avoid the victim of a beating and robbery) probably said the same thing when he saw the Samaritan stop to render aid. “That Samaritan thinks he’s making a difference” said the sactimonious priest.

    Regarding “calculated payoffs” : well-said. I, only recently, came to that same conclusion. And realizing it (REALLY realizing it from the heart), brings with it some powerful clarity, and does make leaving easier. Rather – it makes it necessary.

    Having said all this – i need to apologize for misspelling “truly”. I’m not a good speller, but even so, “truely” didn’t look right somehow.

    Now, to keep resume your topic, 1914. I have read and re-read Matt, 24:34, and still can’t make it conform to the Society’s definition of the generation that will not pass before the End comes. The Society maintains that this generation refers not to distinct generations, but rather to several generations that overlap with the one that was living in 1914. And then I read the first book of Matthew where he first mentions “generations”. There were 14 generations from Abraham until David; and there were 14 generations from David to the Babylonian deportation. And one can see exactly how Matthew defined a “generation”. So if we go by this rubric, then there have been about 4 generations that have passed since 1914. Uh-oh! This comparison was somewhat of a new point to me. You’re correct – it really does help to dig into the Scriptures; and to pray for guidance. Thanks, Doug

  70. I find that caring self directed people like you who live purpose filled lives make really lousy Jehovah’s Witnesses. 🙂

    Doug

  71. I think that was the real turning point for me Mike. I began to really examine my true motivation and where it came from. When we do things for others it should come from a place of love and wanting to help rather than thinking: “Well if I do that then I’ll look good to the congregation and perhaps I’ll be “used” for even greater “privileges”!” That is the true driving force behind most of the Jehovah’s Witness’ activity.

    It is a transactional spirituality as opposed to doing things just for the sheer joy in doing them. The sad fact that very few JW’s volunteer outside of their chosen religion is a telltale sign that what they do is for a very specific payoff i.e. higher ranking in the congregation.

    Spelling is for spellers. Thinking is for thinkers. I think your spelling is fine and it doesn’t really matter as long as we get your thoughts which are superb by the way.

    You have to really think about who Christ was speaking to and the first fulfillment of the prophecy. What was that? The fall of Jerusalem and in that, Christ was exactly right. That generation did not pass away until the fall of Jerusalem in 70 A.D. at the hands of Titus.

    What many groups do is try to read into Christ’s words saying that there is a “DUAL” fulfillment of that prophecy that is to be completed in our time. This is the trap that the Watchtower uses to try to snare otherwise smart people into thinking that the “end times” are upon us.

    I’ll ask the question: “Does it really matter WHEN God brings His judgment to the earth?”

    I’ll ask another question: “If Christ stated flatly that even HE didn’t know when the end was coming, is it any of my business to consume so much time and attention in plotting dates or running around stirring up fear in others as to the end times?”

    Okay a third: “If we are living our lives in emulation of Christ and following His words and His commandments do we have ANYTHING to fear?”

    That was a rhetorical question.

    Thanks for the thought provoking post there Mike. It sounds to me like you’ve done a lot of painful self analysis. I know it hurts but it is worth every single minute of it!

    The truth we seek lies not in the outer world but in ourselves.

    Doug

  72. Nelly

    Wow Mike this is such and enlightening find. Me too appreciate Doug’s website because I have been able to see outside the box. I sadly see around me how so many people are being brainwashed by their (JW) teachings. I am not brave as you (I feel like such a coward sometimes) but it is hard to break ties. I don’t donate money anymore and don’t go out on service as I used to but due to my husband and children I just can’t leave right now. I mostly sit there and sleep or concentrate on other things but don’t do what I used to basically attend and leave so I won’t have to associate with them as much. I have learned something new from this website that I am grateful for finding this amazing site. Many times when I hear the talks I wish I could blurr out about this site and tell them what I have learned and discovered. The many lies and brainwashing that is done on all these people.

  73. Nelly

    Thank you Doug I really look forward to your blogs and feel comforted by other’s comments. One day I will be brave enough to leave. Sometimes instead of feeling uplifted I feel depressed going to meetings because I see the lies, the hypocrisy and the deception. Thank you and may God bless you and your family always.

  74. I agree that there is a lot of deception in the Watchtower organization. However, I have found through brutal self examination that the worst kind of deception is self deception.

  75. Mike

    Marc, thank you so much for your response. It took me a while to get back to you because it usually takes me a while to collect my thoughts and put them into words. So, here’s what I think: If I’m understanding you correctly, you are saying that the Society currently contends that the Governing Body is synonymous with the Faithful and Descrete Slave which, in turn, have both been perpetually in existence since the time of Christ. You are claiming that this is not born out in history, however, because both Russel and Rutherford claimed that they were, individually, the Faithful and Discreet Slave. There was no GB until the 1970s. Interesting. And disturbing. Thank you for that information. The Society is clearly not representing history accurately. Like you, I’m wondering why. Perhaps the GB (aka the F and D Slave) is trying to legitimatize itself by claiming to be in direct lineage from the early Apostles.

    I also thought a lot about what you said regarding the behavior of elders, both in modern-day times, as well as in the time of the Apostles. I have been struggling with defining the difference between human imperfection and wickedness for some time now. Clearly, the outburst between Paul and Barnabus was the result of their imperfection. But at what point does such sniping become wicked? This question is a vital one because Christ said that love would be the defining mark of his people.

    From my perspective there seems to have been a very dark element in every single congregation to which i have belonged. I was baptized in 1979, and have been a member of four congregations down through the years. In each one, I have witnessed a large number of our brothers and sisters who deliberately (and with gleeful abandon) say things that are designed to hurt their brothers and sisters. I remember being out with an elder and his wife, and the wife mentioned that she was very discouraged because of those who wouldn’t comment at meetings. Her husband then said “and some people underline their WT during the congregation WT study rather than study it beforehand”. And then he added “and that isn’t right either”. Well – of course I knew that they were talking about me. I never comment at meetings (I’m way too nervous), AND the elder knew that I was underlining the WT at the last meeting because I saw him look at me when he was manning the microphone. My response to them both was – “and I feel really discouraged when brothers and sisters try to pick the speck out of my eye while ignoring the rafters in their own”. I was pissed. This is just one isolated example of the blatant bullying that goes on. There are so many backbiting hypocrites in the congregations that I have grown to feel that the Wittnesses are right up there with all the rest of the churches.

    And you’re correct about the existence of happy JWs; there are also some good and kind ones – but it does disturb me that these are not part of the majority.

  76. Marc

    Hi Mike, I should clarify some of my comments as I don’t want to mis-apply anything (sound familiar, lol). Yes, the GB is as the WT states “closely identified” with the Faithful Slave. Best I can discern that means they are one and the same but leaving some wiggle room just in case. I’ve pasted the paragraph from the July 2013 Watchtower (on-line study edition)which explains it:

    “10 Who, then, is the faithful and discreet slave? In keeping with Jesus’ pattern of feeding many through the hands of a few, that slave is made up of a small group of anointed brothers who are directly involved in preparing and dispensing spiritual food during Christ’s presence. Throughout the last days, the anointed brothers who make up the faithful slave have served together at headquarters. In recent decades, that slave has been closely identified with the Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses. Note, however, that the word “slave” in Jesus’ illustration is singular, indicating that this is a composite slave. The decisions of the Governing Body are thus made collectively.”

    I don’t believe Russell or Rutherford ever said in print they felt they were “the” slave. Rather, there were Bible Students who thought each were respectively and it caused much division back in the day, particular when Russell died. This is commonly referred to as a “time of sifting” within the organization. Also, to be sure the WT organization has always had what they termed a GB working at the headquarters since Bethel started, however it was more administrative in nature, similar to board members during the first 3 presidents. The structure began to change during Knorr’s tenure as president, becoming more legislative in nature with admin tasks going to committees (teaching committee, service committee, etc) so they could focus more on “governing” I would say. What you see today is a much more distinctive GB than you would have seen prior to the 70’s and 80’s. I don’t think that’s good or bad and probably reflected the needs of the org at the time. In my prior career as a JW I saw many of these changes (and they continue). I can’t speak to the motivation of the leaders, only that they seem to blur the lines of history to make it appear it’s always been the way it is, sugar coating the negative or framing it as some type of cleansing. Interestingly, in following up on a conversation with my father I was reading the January 2014 WT (study edition) and learned that “this generation” Jesus referred to at Matthew 24:34 now applies to TWO different groups of overlapping generations of anointed. What? Reread Jesus words and let me know if you discern more than one generation from the context. Apparently the teaching committee does… and conveniently explains this in the first WT issue of 2014. 100 years post 1914. God chose not to reveal this until… now?

  77. Marc

    Correction on my last statement above, further research showed the two group view of “generation” was apparently the view as early as 2010. I should have searched to verify first. It’s actually quite brilliant as it nullifies the “1914 Generation” thinking and simply morphs into the “generation” of the last days.

  78. Gigi

    This is all very interesting, and will help me tremendously when I finally get the courage up to speak with my husband. He is a witness, and I am not. He was “disfellowshipped” when we married, but started going back about a year and a half later. I watched him go back to the meetings for 6 months while NO ONE spoke to him. They weren’t “allowed”. I could go on and on, but I really just need advice. Advice on how to help him see that the “truth” is NOT the TRUTH!!! It is getting harder and harder for me to stick with him. We are so separated in so many ways. I can’t pray out loud in front of him, we can’t have birthdays, we don’t do anything but anniversaries and graduations. Anyways…if you have any advice at all, I would greatly appreciate it. Thank you.

  79. Hi Gigi,

    I feel for you I really do. This is one of the chief complaints that I receive on the blog. As a matter of fact I’ve been thinking about a timely subject for a new post / article and this will be it. The unsuspecting marriage partner thinks they are marrying someone “normal” when they marry a former Jehovah’s Witness. Nothing could be further from the truth. Any crisis or life change can bring about a complete transformation back into the mindless robotic automaton they were before you met them; before they left the cult.

    All of a sudden you’ll feel like you’re living with a stranger. They become cold, distant, calculating, and lack the emotion and spontaneity they had before. Meetings and “theocratic” life become the priority and everything else, including and especially YOU, takes a back seat. They may become abrasive and hateful toward you because you are their constant reminder that they made a huge mistake in getting married to an “unbeliever”. They will constantly goad and guilt you to go with them to the meetings. They’ll bring “friends” over who will be super friendly to you in an attempt to get you to “start a bible study”. If you have children they will try to force them to attend the Kingdom Hall. They will bring Jehovah’s Witness families with children their age over to “play” with your kids. All of this is an elaborate ruse to get you and your children assimilated into the cult as quickly as possible.

    You can fight their attempts…and they will make your life a living hell for it.

    This results in divisiveness in the family home, separation, divorce, bitter custody battles, and a whole laundry list of pain for the non-JW spouse or ex-spouse.

    You’ve got one long road to travel Gigi and my heart goes out to you. If you don’t have kids with this man, DON’T! Form your exit strategy and prepare to get out. That’s the best advice I can give you.

    I recommend that you read anything by Steven Hassan. His book was crucial to my recovery after I left the organization. Steven is a former “Moonie” and he has been able to distill the fundamental mechanics of all cults in his writing. His book, “Combating Cult Mind Control” was the first that I read. It never mentions Jehovah’s Witnesses. However, the similarities you will see between the Unification cult and Jehovah’s Witnesses is staggering. After I read his book I realized that they all read from the same “playbook”. The names and terminology change with each cult but the basic premise of mind control remains the same.

    Reading that book was a huge help to me and I’m sure it will be you as well.

    Steven’s website link is here and of course his books are all on Amazon if you prefer that.

    http://www.freedomofmind.com/

    I can think of no other resource as profoundly effective as his books in combating the mind control of cults. Also please feel free to read my blog posts. I write because it helps me in my recovery and it is public so it helps others at the same time. My blog is completely free so jump in anywhere and start reading.

    I’m praying for you Gigi!

    Doug

  80. Anonymous

    Greetings, Nelly. You called me “brave” in a previous post, and I want to assure you that bravery had nothing to do with my leaving the JWs. To the contrary, I was hit by a figurative bus, and had absolutely no choice but to leave. This is why: My daughter, Emily, was disfellowshipped about 15 years ago. I was a very obediant witness and didn’t associate with her much, and it broke my heart. About 4 years ago I was in my lab in Seattle when Emmy called me. She was crying and incoherant. To my horror, she was standing on the Tacoma-Narrows bridge, preparing to kill herself. She had consumed an entire bottle of peppermint schnaps to dull the pain when she hit the water. I was 40 miles away and could do nothing. For what seemed an eternity, I talked to 911 on the phone on one ear, and Emily on the other. The police got to her in 7 minutes and took her immediately to a hospital. She was going to be committed to a psychiatric hospital, but the hospital psychiatrist remanded her to me instead. For the first time in 10 years, I spent time with my daughter. What I learned was this – Emily is the most wonderful human being I have ever known. She is loving and as honest as they come. She has been with the same man for 14 years, and has been married to him for 11 years. They are still madly in love with one another. I missed out on 10 years of my daughter’s life, and I have no intention of ever leaving her again.

    The true clincher came when our circuit overseer was last here. He talked about a mother who was associating with her disfellowshipped daughter, and he asked the question to the congregation “why should she (the DFd daughter) come back when she has you?” That statement seemed wrong on so many levels; he was talking about emotional blackmail, pure and simple. So you see, leaving wasn’t the brave thing to do – it was the only thing to do.

    I’m so sorry for you, Nelly, and I do understand how difficult it must be when other members of your family are going to meetings. The congregation does feel like a safe haven – to a point. When it stops feeling safe for you, then you will be able to leave. It’s a process that requires unflinching honesty and self-analysis. Just be patient with yourself.

  81. Wow. I’m so humbled by your experience Anonymous. Wow.

    Thank you for such brutal honesty and for posting. I’m so glad that you were able to get honest with yourself and become the mother you were meant to be to Emmy.

    Shame on that circuit overseer for saying that. He judged you just as sure as the sun rises and sets. He went against the words of Christ Himself when He said:

    “Judge not lest ye be judged.”

    Thank you for this post. I can’t imagine the emotions you went through in leaving and in having the courage to post this.

    May God bless and comfort you and bring you peace.

    Doug

  82. Mike

    Hi Doug. I don’t know why I came up as “Anonymous”. I must not have signed my name at the end of my post. In any event – it’s me, Mike.

  83. Mike

    And yes, my name is Mike, and yes I am a mother. Having cleared that up, I am now reminded of the time I was at a book study, about 35 years ago. There were three very plump pioneer sisters sitting across from me, staring at me – they were very righteous, and I was a 28 year old smart alec. one of the sisters asked,”why is your name “mike”? Did your parents want a boy?” That was about the 1000th time that I had been asked that, so I shot back “no, I just had a sex change operation a few years ago, and I just haven’t gotten around to changing my name”. Well – the whole room got silent, and not one person would even blink while they were staring at me. it was very scary. I’ve been laughing about it ever since.

  84. Haha! Mike I like you. You have a great sense of humor! That is hysterically funny and I can just imagine the looks those sisters gave you and each other.

    I think a great sense of humor is crucial to our recovery from anything negative in our lives. The ability to laugh at ourselves and each other is truly healing!

  85. Nelly

    Thank you so much Mike. I am so happy that you are now part of your daughter’s life. My daughter left her husband and later divorced him and of course didn’t consult with the elders and would probably now be disfellowshipped because of her worldly things. I made a mistake by telling one of the sisters that my daughter had a friend who was gay and had helped in the parade (my daughter is not gay) she just volunteered. Anyway the sister scolded me and said that hanging with gays and lesbians was like going back to your vomit. that it was disgusting and that I should stop associating with my daughter. Sorry but no! My daughter is always looking to help others and is always looking to volunteer and I am not going to turn my back at her. I think my daughter has been thru so much that she probably would have been in the same boat as your daughter if we turned our back on her. Thank you for your confidence in telling me your story. God bless you and your wonderful relationship with your daughter.

  86. Nelly ANYTHING you say can and will be used against you by the Jehovah’s Witnesses.

  87. Mike

    Nelly, good for you! You are treating your daughter like a true Christian should. And it’s apparent that your daughter is a very giving and caring young woman – you can share in the credit, I’m sure. You must be very proud of her!

    I should tell you, now, about my other daughter who is baptized (she’s my only child who is a JW). I just recently told her that she is a mean-spirited, self-entitled ingrate, and that I really didn’t want to be a part of her life anymore (actually, she never really gave me “the time of day” anyway – unless she needed something, that is). I have given more to Stef than all of my other three kids put together – primarily because she was so manipulative. In any event, of my four children, she’s the one I’m the least proud of as a human being….yes, by their fruits you shall know them.

    God bless you too, Nelly. Rejoice in the fact that you have produced an exceptional daughter!

    It’s a shame that your “sister” is so judgemental. I know that such statements cause hurt and anger. I once told a sister like that that she was acting like a pharisee, and then I suggested that she join a church. Saying this was very therapeutic.

  88. Mike

    Your post is so very logical, Marc! I feel the same way you do about the “blurred lines” of history and the sugar coating. Even while I was a full-fledged Witness, I felt that the facts presented by the WT were a bit selfserving and distorted – I always felt that they were being manipulative, and the information seemed more like propaganda as opposed to the refreshing language of Truth.

    I can’t speak to the subject of motivation either – it would help if we could know. I wonder, at times, if it’s a matter of self-preservation in terms of identity. What would the leaders do if the WT didn’t exist? That must be a very scary prospect to those who enjoy the position and status of leadership – I think a clue can be found in the title that Ray Franz chose for his first book, “Crisis of Conscience”. To abandon the WT can be a true crisis for some; I’m glad that Ray was courageous enough to follow his conscience. Apparently this type of mental and emotional rigor isn’t something that all WT leaders can lie claim to.

    Thank you so much for your information! You’ve done your homework, and I like learning the facts about the history of the WT. I recently read Walter Salter’s letter to Rutherford – you and other participants in this blog might find this enlightening, if you haven’t already read it.

  89. Mike

    Doug’s response to this post is perfect! And so very true. You’re a good person, Nelly, and your kids should be very proud of you. What a wonderful example you are setting for them. No wonder the daughter you spoke of in a previous post is so giving and kind. She’s just like her mom!

  90. Mike

    Oh, don’t even get me started on that “generation” thing, Marc! Yes, it is brilliant – and oh so very devious. Reading the first chapter of Matthew clarified, to me, what a generation was from Matthew’s perspective (and certainly from Jehovah’s perspective). This morphing of thought by the WT was a bit disconcerting when I first read about it. It just didn’t feel right somehow. It’s comforting to know that other brothers and sisters have come to the same realization.

  91. Mike

    Gigi – I would suggest that you arm yourself with the facts about the history of the WT. Your husband probably won’t listen to what the “apostates” are saying, but he might give some thought about some of the literature from the Society’s past. There are plently of sites that have photocopies of both Russle’s and Rutherfords writings. Show him, for example, that Christ’s Second Coming was first proposed as coming in 1874 (Russle claimed that this date was “indisputable”). Show him that the resurrection of the Men of Old (i.e., Abraham, David, etc) was supposed to have occured in 1925, according to the Society. Find some articles on Beth Sarim – the mansion that Rutherford had built for the “Men of Old” – a mansion that he lived in, by the way. Find the letter that Olin Moyle wrote to Rutherford; and then read the court records involved in the libel and slander suit against Rutherford ini the 1930s. Moyle won the suit, by the way, and the Society was forced to give Moyle $35,000. Also look for lists of failed prophecies – I wouldn’t advise showing these lists to your husband, but I would show him Russle and Rutherford’s prophecies directly from photocopies that can be found on the net. Reading these writings in conjunction with wiith Scriptural citations regarding false prophesies may open a door to your husband’s mind and heart (Deut 18:22). Here is a site to get you started. It’s a partial list of failed prophesies with citations from WT writings: http://carm.org/jehovahs-witnesses-and-their-many-false-prophecies

    I’m not sure I would throw your marriage away just yet. Every marriage requires sacrifices, so I’m hoping you and your husband are willing to compromise and respect one another’s beliefs. One of the primary complaints about JWs is their intolerance of the beliefs of others. I would advise you not to be as uncompromising regarding your beliefs as well. If you don’t love your husband enough to give up the holidays in your home, then can you really expect him to excercise the same spirit of sacrifice? A spirit of compromise, respect and communication is the cornerstone of every successful marriage.

    I base this advise on my own experience – although I wouldn’t advise being as tolerant as I was, nor would I brook any type of abuse (especially emotional abuse). I left the JWs about 24 years ago; went back in for 12, and am now out for good. I was married for 27 years to a very strict, hard-nosed JW. I was very assertive and stubborn about my feelings after I left the WTS, but I did compromise about the holidays, and didn’t celebrate them in our home. We made the marriage work until I went back to graduate school. Both my husband and I had bachelor’s degrees, but the marriage fell apart when I went back for my Masters of Science degree in preparation for a life as a research scientist. My husband turned into a sadistic and abusive jerk – he was always the jealous and competitive type, and he couldn’t stand my transition from wife/mother to matrix biologist. I finally divorced him, but I came away feeling that if David hadn’t been so jealous and abusive, the marriage might have worked. The fact that the marriage worked for a number of years gives me hope that your marriage could work as well. I still believe in the Bible and the sanctity of marriage; I also believe in what the Bible says at 1 Corinthians 13:4. I do wish you and your husband the very best. Hopefully you both love one another enough to make it work.

  92. Great advice Mike. Jehovah’s Witnesses are all about tolerance as long as it is YOU tolerating THEM. The second the shoe is on the other foot they become abusive, hateful and darned near impossible to deal with. Double standards are the rule and not the exception when dealing with hardline JW’s and their elders. Get ready to rumble if you insist on having holidays in your home or with your kids. Oh and crosses are OUT! Crosses are as effective in repelling Jehovah’s Witnesses as they are vampires (Okay excuse my humor.)

    I do think that if your husband wants to work things out that you get a marriage counselor to referee so that things are done fairly and equitably. Obviously if you put up with his religion then he should tolerate yours.

    Doug

  93. Nelly

    You guys all make me feel great about what I say I don’t get critzized or humiliated. Truly showing Christian love.

  94. Nelly, there is no “Christian” love. That denotes some underlying motive. I laugh when I think about the use of “agape” or “principled love” in the Jehovah’s Witnesses.

    When the leper told Jesus that He could heal him if He wanted to he didn’t say “Okay I’m going to heal you because I’m God’s Son and it is expected and I’m supposed to show LOVE.”

    He simply said “I WANT TO.” (Mark 1)

    There is only love, from the heart. Anything else is merely contrived bullshit.

  95. Marc

    This blog is one of the better ones for individuals wishing to expound on the beliefs of JW’s or simply communicate and be heard. Kudos again to you Doug! What I read and sense here is a real desire to help and not simply condemn or judge others. Shame on those claiming to be witnesses who then post hateful or negative responses (such as Anonymous and Gabriel). You would never say such things at someone’s door in the ministry – you would simply excuse yourself. Why not do the same here and simply excuse yourself? Or are you having doubts and taking out your frustration on those who may add fuel to those doubts? I have to think that because a solid in the faith witness wouldn’t even go to these types of forums. And as far as I know, you can’t count your responses as “time”, so what’s the payoff in posting negative stuff? Anyway, just had to vent there 😉

    Speaking of apostates, the other day for the first time in 5 years my Father said to me I had “apostate” leanings – because I disputed his interpretation of a scripture. I didn’t disparage Jehovah God or the WT organization. He tried to apply 2 Corinthians 13:1 to justify judicial committees (WT reasoning). That’s the 2 or 3 witness rule to establish a matter. I simply asked where does it say these witnesses have to be Elders? Based on that question he decided my thoughts were apostate leaning. It really blew me away because up to that point we were having what I thought was a good discussion. His frustration at being unable to prove with scripture the interpretation the WT provides made me an apostate leaner. Kind of sucks to be viewed in that way since I’ve never spoken ill of the org and definitely not about God.

  96. Les Gray

    Mike,
    This is my first time on this site. I resigned from the WT Society in 1995. I am now 64. My wife and her grandfather were JW before I joined. He is deceased. She is still an active JW.

    Reading “Crisis of Conscience” by Ray Franz and “30 years a Watchtower Slave” were eye-openers into the activities of the WT organization. I had already learned about WT Society failed chronology and numerous other contradictions. But what finally helped me make my decision is the question you are asking.

    I was confronted with the same question: “Could I in good conscience invite someone else to become a JW based on what I knew and learned about the organization?” My answer was no. At the time I was conducting home bible studies with householders. But based upon what I had learned inside the various congregations I could not recommend that others join the organization. Some of the teachings of the WT organization could be helpful; but overall I could not reconcile that with the lies, deceit, deceptions and mind-control tactics of the organization. I also agree that some Kingdom Halls can be rife with backing-biting gossip and mean-natured jealousy. In numerous congregations there is little difference between the behaviors of those “in the world”, other than the fact that JW’s hide their vices and they are sanctimoniousness. I compare many of the behavior of the WT organization and its members with that of the sanctimoniousness Pharisee.

    It still took me about 2 years wrestling with that question that I finally made the decision and resigned from the WT organization. It usually takes some times to make the final decision to resign.

  97. Nelly

    Dear Les Gray:

    Thank you for the encouragement you and Doug have given me. I am not going to meetings as I previously was, I have always been very open minded and have always looked to make sure that our children question everything and that nothing stays as a doubt in their minds. I went to the meeting the other day because everybody was encouraged to attend because “The Society” was presenting a video. Oh yes, the video was on the upcoming International Convention in Houston, Texas at the Reliant Center so what are we to do? Show face that we are a giving loving brotherhood. Yeah right, I immediately looked over to my husband and told him “DON’T VOLUNTEER”!!! but as soon as the meeting was over, brothers started coming towards us to ask for our help. Bunch of hypocrites!!! When I was sick when my husband was in ICU NOBODY CAME TO SEE US!!! NOBODY!!!!! So we are to show these people from other countries that “we are SOOOOO UNITED”. I hate hypocrites I really do. The great thing is that my children are starting to notice that too, we are only approached when someone needs something, when we need something NOBODY IS THERE FOR US.

  98. Mike

    Very interesting, Nelly! Could you tell me which WT article this info was in?

  99. Mike

    “…as if God didn’t get it right the first time.” Lol, Doug. I’ll wager that that remark brought an ironic smile to God’s face 😉

  100. It certainly brought one to mine Mike!

  101. anonymous UBM

    About two years ago I finally got my “re interested’ born in JW raised husband to read Hassan’s first book! At first he laughed at me, dismissed me told me I had no right to ask him to read anything and other disrespectful comments I won’t mention. I kept telling him it was for him to try to understand my reasons for feeling frantic. I asked him to read it in order to ex-lain to me how the JWs were not like this. I reminded him I had been reading large amounts of ( current ) WT material to try to understand the WT, and his need to become baptized. I did that because i cared that much about him that I needed to try to understand.

    He finally, one night after we had another argument, shockingly to me, asked me to bring him the book and he would read it! We discussed it twice. Once he read up to the flying saucer cult and had a good laugh at that absurdity ( My mind was yelling out inside of me “cognitive dissonance in action!”) The next time he had tabbed four pages, which four? Unsurprisingly to me it was the four describing the BITE method ( it was not called that in this book and not in the BITE order) He didn’t discuss it all with me. When we discussed information control and I asked if the JW practice this, he was visibly upset and he got angry and refused to discuss anymore with me. He also stopped reading the book at that point. This is one of the things I am hoping helped plant seed of doubt. I didn’t press for more discussion. Was it smart of me to have him read the book? I have no idea. I am going to hope it was.

    After him reading the Hassan book one evening months later I asked him while we were in a calm state, how would he feel if he were watching me join into the 12 tribes/yellow deli, ( local well known cult for us) watching me become convinced that was the only way to worship? I asked if he would care? Would he try to find out about them? Would he feel it would affect our way of life/marriage/family? He told me “I would be researching and doing the same thing you are doing. I would want to show you what I found”. That was a huge positive moment for me, The discussion didn’t last long because he evidently, (oddly to me) was not really connecting it to the JW in his mind at first, then became visibly uncomfortable and quickly said he didn’t want to talk about it anymore.

    He is not active at the moment and kind of in limbo. Not wanting to really address the whole JW thing. I assume out of emotional fear of not wanting to know the truth, or knowing emotionally that he will refuse to hear the truth.

    Gigi I feel you. Boy do I feel your pain. We have a child, but if we did not. I doubt I would continue to try so hard. It has been horribly hard.

  102. Thank you so much for sharing your story with us.

    Praying for you Anonymous!

    Doug

  103. Vince Freeman

    Now Wait… I’ve been reading this and “You liken this to the Nazi regime?” Your comparing a Christian Organization, to the Nazi’s? One organization committed Genocide and forcefully committed young men to fight for an unworthy cause (Global Domination), to the other organization that holds peaceful assemblies. Your way off in your comparison there. I don’t even understand this blog, your a Christian but know full well that the JW’s are a christian organization? Everyone has free will to decide whether or not they would like to be apart of the organization. No way you were in the organization for 20+ years because i’ve been studying for 6 weeks and I grew up in the world. This guys a hack folks.

  104. Hi Vince,

    We were comparing the authoritarianism and mind control of the Nazis to that of the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society. As usual, people, like you, take what is written on this blog completely out of context and run with it.

    The Nazis were a heavily authoritarian group. So is the Watchtower.

    The Nazis were constantly pumping out propaganda. So does the Watchtower.

    The Nazis strongly encouraged their members to turn in those who disagreed openly with their dogma, even family members. So does the Watchtower.

    The Nazis required strict obedience to their litany of rules and regulations. So does the Watchtower.

    The Nazis would execute anyone found to be plotting against them. The Watchtower excommunicates anyone that dares disagree with them on any point.

    The Nazis had a strict heirarchy and their leaders were revered as gods. The Watchtower has a strict heirarchy and the leaders wield “godlike” power over their subjects.

    Vince, I was in the organization from the time I was three years old until I turned twenty-six. I gave talks, I spoke at Circuit Assemblies, and I was an auxiliary pioneer. Your contention that I’m a “hack” is completely baseless and if you took more than a few minutes to read one sentence that you took out of context you would know that.

    FYI: I wouldn’t refer to the Jehovah’s Witnesses as a “Christian” organization. By definition “Christians” follow the words and actions and teachings of Christ. The Watchtower organization’s actions and words are more like that of the Pharisees in so many ways that I can’t begin to enumerate them.

    Studying for six weeks? Sounds like they’ve really done a number on you. Looks like you’ve swallowed the whole “hook, line and sinker”.

    When you wake up from the “ether” and realize what’s been done to you, we’ll be here and we’ll be happy to help you. Hopefully you won’t waste too many years of your life or sell your family into slavery to them before coming to grips with the reality of what it really means to be a Jehovah’s Witness.

    You’ll find that you only have freedom of choice up until you get baptized. Then you and your family are Watchtower property.

    Enjoy the ride Vince. It’s a long one and you’ll never “arrive” at the advertised destination.

    Doug

  105. Mike

    Greetings, Vince. In reading your post, I’m reminded of how I felt when I was first studying with the Witnesses. At this point in time, however, (some thirty-six years later) my views have changed considerabley. And I need you to realize that this change in viewpoint has been the result of excruciating and heartrending analyses and an absolute need to understand what the ultimate Truth really is. I’m a contributor to this blog, not because I hate the Witnesses, but because I’ve encountered some things in the Watchtower Society that I’ve found rather disturbing (read “Crisis of Conscience” by Ray Franz, an ex-member of the Governing Body of JWs). I read this blog because I need to examine my experiences in the light of those who have had similar experiences. There are so many of us who are saying the same thing, Vince – that the WT Society uses mind control in order to change us into people who are not true Christians.

    In regard to the comparison of the WT to the Nazis, consider Doug’s post below very carefully. Please. No one on this blog would liken the Witnesses to the Nazis in the way that you have inferred. What we are saying, however, is that there is a very subtle and profound endoctrination that the Watchtower Society uses that captures one’s mind and heart. For example, as you study, you might find yourself feeling that you are somehow superior to those “in the world”. Did Christ teach this sentiment? No. Did the Nazis profer this sentiment? Yes.

    As you begin to attend meetings, look closely at your level of compassion to others – does it increase or decrease as you progress in “the truth”? Do you find yourself thinking that you are special because Jehovah has drawn you into his organization? When you advance to sharing in the ministry, do you find yourself feeling superior to those in the congregation who aren’t doing as much? Do you find yourself concentrating on the number of hours in field service as opposed to concentrating on the need spread the good news of the Bible? Above all, do you look at your brothers and sisters with a critical, and selfrighteous eye? Or, conversely, do you see your brothers and sisters sit in judgement of you and your life?

    As you proceed on your spiritual journey, please be aware of your own feelings about those in the congregation. Does it bother you that your brothers and sisters gossip and find fault with others in the congregation? Look closely at the pioneers. Are they loving footstep followers of Christ, or do you feel that they are in it primarily for the perks of popularity and prestige? Above all, as you read the Bible, note the behavior of the Pharisees….and then ponder what you see by way of your own experiences in studying the WT.

    And lastly – read the history of the WT Society (including failed prophesies and the dealings of Russle and Rutherford). And then read up on the history of the Nazi Party from its inception onward. You might be surprised by the similarities.

  106. Mike

    And just in case you are missing Doug’s point about being educated, Gabriel – you are using the word “your” incorrectly. You should use it as a contraction: you are = “you’re”; not “your”. And it’s not “tipical”: the word is spelled “typical”. And last but not least, you really should review what you’ve learned in the Theocratic Ministry School – not only does it teach us the basics of intelligent communication, it also emphasizes the need to use logic rather than base name-calling to convey our feelings.

  107. Gregg

    Wow! I’m so glad I found this blog. I’m stuck in a rut religiously but I consider myself a Christian. I believe in God and Jesus but I just don’t feel comfortable about all of these big churches so I stopped going years ago. My wife is a Jehova’s Witness. I knew absolutely NOTHING about them when we met and still knew very little even a couple of years after we were married. Up until that time I thought it was just another denomination of Christianity but slowly but surely I started learning more and more about it. The only issues we’d have was celebrating various holidays but in the beginning she would actually bend the rules for me. Mainly holiday family get togethers and she “allowed” me to take our son (step son at the time: I adopted later) trick or treating a couple of times.

    About a year ago she convinced me to have weekly study sessions with an “elder.” and whoever else might be tagging along. I was VERy skeptical and would cross reference my “Geneva Bible” with what The New World Translation” would say as we were reading through that little book “What the Bible Really Teaches.” But after a while I basically got bored with it and now I just go through the motions every week. We are almost done with it. I’m so sick of hearing about The Trinity. It is mentioned EVERY single session. They seem obsessed with it. They even go as far as calling it “The ugly three headed monster.”

    Lately I’ve been privately taking the time to do a little research about the doctrine of JWs and am now 100% convinced I don’t want to be a part of it. And I’m really worried about my wife and kids. My son is 11 and is showing signs of being socially awkward like many JW kids. I’m worried my 4 year old daughter will go down that path too. Then there’s the issue of trying to get my wife to see the JWs for what they really are. And the big problem is not knowing what to do. How am I supposed to try and talk her out of being a JW when they are constantly trained to blindly defend themselves against those that would attempt to discount their beliefs? I’m so lost here. What should I do?

    Thanks,

    Gregg

  108. Read my blog Gregg.

    That’s about the best advice I can give. You’ll see all of the posts, responses and articles regarding all things Jehovah’s Witness here.

    Doug

  109. Gregg

    I just mentioned Luke 20: 36 to her to see what she had to say about Jesus saying people can’t die after resurrection. It tripped her up for a long time before she finally said that Jesus was talking about the 144,000 that go to heaven. Hmmmmm……..interesting. This is going to be a long stressful process.

  110. Nope. That doesn’t cut it. Let’s take a look at the context:

    Luke 20:27-38

    27 Some of the Sadducees, who say there is no resurrection, came to Jesus with a question. 28 “Teacher,” they said, “Moses wrote for us that if a man’s brother dies and leaves a wife but no children, the man must marry the widow and raise up offspring for his brother. 29 Now there were seven brothers. The first one married a woman and died childless. 30 The second 31 and then the third married her, and in the same way the seven died, leaving no children. 32 Finally, the woman died too. 33 Now then, at the resurrection whose wife will she be, since the seven were married to her?”

    34 Jesus replied, “The people of this age marry and are given in marriage. 35 But those who are considered worthy of taking part in the age to come and in the resurrection from the dead will neither marry nor be given in marriage, 36 and they can no longer die; for they are like the angels. They are God’s children, since they are children of the resurrection. 37 But in the account of the burning bush, even Moses showed that the dead rise, for he calls the Lord ‘the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.’[b] 38 He is not the God of the dead, but of the living, for to him all are alive.”

    The example the Sadducees brought to Christ was of a woman who had already died. Since Christ had not yet died or ascended, then this applied to those who are supposed to be, according to the Watchtower, members of the earthly class to be resurrected to earth and not heaven.

    She knows this. She’s deliberately trying to trip YOU up by giving you such a lame answer.

    Doug

  111. Marc

    If I may add a comment too. It seems it’s those little tidbits of truth that Jesus uttered which cause the biggest headache to a devout witness because they don’t fit in with the “truth” as they have been taught. Another Jesus truth which causes heartburn is the account at Mark 9:38-40 (Lu 9:49,50) where a man who was not part of the immediate group of disciples was able to expel demons in Jesus name. When the apostles complained Jesus basically said if he aint’ against us, its all good. Well, that flies in the face of there being only “one” channel God or Jesus could only use – and that from eyewitness accounts of Jesus own words. The best answer a witness will give is that presumably this man did eventually come to worship with the Jesus disciple in Jerusalem and was most likely present when the HS was poured out at Pentecost 33 c.e. – although there is no scriptural account that says that. In general, the publications avoid much discussion on it. When I was a witness I struggled with that one when I asked about that in the field ministry. But now it makes total sense when I look at it from Jesus perspective.

  112. Marc

    And please excuse my grammatical errors, lol. That’s what happens when you don’t proofread!

  113. AMEN! One of my favorite scriptures that really indicates that we are all able to approach God in our own unique way.

    The only single channel that is required is Christ Himself. Everything else is pretty much open to interpretation.

    “I am the Way and the Truth and the Life. No one comes to the Father but through Me.”

    Interesting that the Watchtower has hijacked Christ’s designation as “The Truth” and set themselves up as the sole channel to salvation. They have usurped the throne of Christ Himself and taken it for themselves.

    If you ask a JW what “The Truth” is they will go on and on about the teachings of the Watchtower. They will never ONCE say it is Christ Himself.

  114. It’s all good Marc!

  115. Gregg

    She ended up consulting her Jehovah’s Witness CD-Rom (Can’t remember the actual name for it) and even it said Jesus wasn’t talking about the 144,000. So, later after searching her bible and the CD for a while she said that God can still take them away or kill them. I think I really tossed a rather large wrench into the gears on this one. She even called her sister for help.

  116. Notice how JW’s will make things up when the kitchen gets a little too hot for them?

    That is classic denial and typical JW behavior. I remember reading that scripture out loud during a meeting for service and the wife of an elder dressed me down in front of everybody and stormed out.

    “Don’t confuse me with with the facts.”

    It would be funny if it weren’t so tragic.

  117. Gregg

    I’m not going to press that issue anymore. I’m going to keep poking and just bring out just enough information to cause a little doubt and move on to the next one. I’m not sure which issue though. Maybe the Trinity? I heard I can use a few versus from Revelations. Where God/Jesus say I am the Alpha and Omega and was dead.

  118. Yes that is quite a glaring crack in the Watchtower “code”. That chapter is filled with serious challenges to those who don’t believe in the divinity of Christ.

    John 8:58 is another one where the context is darn near impossible to contradict even by the most seasoned JW.

  119. Gregg

    Yeah that seems like a great one too. I’m thinking about showing her the article about the Pyramid grave too. That seems to throw a rather huge monkey wrench into their beliefs as well. I also need to find more info about how other every day common items we all use have ties to Pagan (or other) customs. I want to show her that we’d all have to basically hide in a closet all day to avoid each and every little thing in life that might be attached to other religious customs that we don’t like.

  120. Alex

    Congratulations Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witness on your 100 year anniversary of ignorance (or you would call spiritual food) spewed out to the flock!
    You all should be ashamed of yourselves for suggesting God speaks only through you old men and no one else.
    That makes you cult leaders.

  121. Well said Alex. Sounds like you’ve got a lot of justified anger. I hope you find solace and peace in this blog my friend.

  122. Nelly

    Why is it that Jehovah’s Witnesses look down on higher education? I am currently in college and pursuing a career and yesterday was truly a bashing on education. We were told that if we pursued higher education we would be materialistic, we should pursue field service, become auxiliary pioneers or if possible Regular pioneers. Are they basically saying that if I am pursuing a higher education I am not spiritual enough? I couldn’t believe my ears. I was disgusted!!!

  123. Nelly you’re supposed to “trust in Jehovah”. If you pursue higher education you’re a threat to the organization’s control of you and your family. That is the central reason why they discourage education. If you have options you might exercise them. Are you starting to get it?

  124. Anonymous

    Hi Nelly,
    The Watchtower knock on higher education is just another aspect of the organizational systematic approach to mind control. It is Watchtower mind control that keeps members in- check and in the fold. The organization also uses that systematic approach when they tell members not to listen or read literature that is not Watchtower approved.

    The Watchtower fears members seeking higher education, members listening or reading literature that is not 100% Watchtower, or listening to former Watchtower adherents who have come out of the cult. The Watchtower will accuse current members of becoming an apostate, using independent thinking if they get word of a member seeking education or information outside of approved Watchtower channels. Right before I resigned from the Watchtower I confronted a group of Watchtower elders on the Watchtower knock on higher education and asked some rhetorical questions. I asked;

    “If everyone followed Watchtower reasoning on higher education where would we get doctors? If everyone followed Watchtower reasoning on higher education we would have no doctors, no dentist, no opticians, no brain surgeons, no mental health professionals, and no teachers to educate our children. My questions and comments were met with the usual frozen Watchtower glaze displayed by people in an organization who lack the individual abilities to think for themselves.

    The practice of the Watchtower knocking higher education is just another aspect of the organizations systematic approach to mind control. One should not be surprised that the Watchtower knocks higher education because higher education poses a danger to Watchtower mind control.

    The real danger to higher education is that it can lead to an individual developing their ability to do critical thinking and reasoning. When individuals within the Watchtower organization develop their thinking faculties and develop critical thinking and reasoning they pose a threat to Watchtower mind control. One on the things that the Watchtower organization does not want and will not tolerate is individuals within the organization who can think for themselves and are not afraid to verbalize.

    I got into a conversation with two Watchtower elders a few months ago. They had heard from my wife who is still an active Watchtower member that I was once a Watchtower adherent. One elder who is pleasant asked me about my status. I told him I resigned. The other dogmatic elder said,” That is the same as Disfellowship”. I quickly corrected him. I told him there was a huge difference. I emphasized very emphatically that no one dragged me into the organization and no one had to drag me out. The organization was not for me; I resigned in 1995, I was not disfellowedshipped! That shut the mouth of the dogmatic elder. The pleasant elder laughed at the dogmatic elder’s recoil when I corrected him.

    I resigned before they had a chance to besmirch my reputation, make up lies, discredit me and kick me out; and believe me lies can be spread. Another thing that I’ve learned about Watchtower tactics is that they count on members and the unsuspecting public being passive when confronted with Watchtower dogma, indoctrination and the organization’s systematic mind control tactics. At some point one will have to stand up to the sanctimoniousness Watchtower “Spiritual Bullies” and their empty claims that they are God’s channel.

    I wish the best for you Nelly

  125. Les Gray

    Hi Nelly,
    The Watchtower knock on higher education is just another aspect of the organizational systematic approach to mind control. It is Watchtower mind control that keeps members in- check and in the fold. The organization also uses that systematic approach when they tell members not to listen or read literature that is not Watchtower approved.

    The Watchtower fears members seeking higher education, members listening or reading literature that is not 100% Watchtower, or listening to former Watchtower adherents who have come out of the cult. The Watchtower will accuse current members of becoming an apostate, using independent thinking if they get word of a member seeking education or information outside of approved Watchtower channels. Right before I resigned from the Watchtower I confronted a group of Watchtower elders on the Watchtower knock on higher education and asked some rhetorical questions. I asked;

    “If everyone followed Watchtower reasoning on higher education where would we get doctors? If everyone followed Watchtower reasoning on higher education we would have no doctors, no dentist, no opticians, no brain surgeons, no mental health professionals, and no teachers to educate our children. My questions and comments were met with the usual frozen Watchtower glaze displayed by people in an organization who lack the individual abilities to think for themselves.

    The practice of the Watchtower knocking higher education is just another aspect of the organizations systematic approach to mind control. One should not be surprised that the Watchtower knocks higher education because higher education poses a danger to Watchtower mind control.

    The real danger to higher education is that it can lead to an individual developing their ability to do critical thinking and reasoning. When individuals within the Watchtower organization develop their thinking faculties and develop critical thinking and reasoning they pose a threat to Watchtower mind control. One on the things that the Watchtower organization does not want and will not tolerate is individuals within the organization who can think for themselves and are not afraid to verbalize.

    I got into a conversation with two Watchtower elders a few months ago. They had heard from my wife who is still an active Watchtower member that I was once a Watchtower adherent. One elder who is pleasant asked me about my status. I told him I resigned. The other dogmatic elder said,” That is the same as Disfellowship”. I quickly corrected him. I told him there was a huge difference. I emphasized very emphatically that no one dragged me into the organization and no one had to drag me out. The organization was not for me; I resigned in 1995, I was not disfellowedshipped! That shut the mouth of the dogmatic elder. The pleasant elder laughed at the dogmatic elder’s recoil when I corrected him.

    I resigned before they had a chance to besmirch my reputation, make up lies, discredit me and kick me out; and believe me lies can be spread. Another thing that I’ve learned about Watchtower tactics is that they count on members and the unsuspecting public being passive when confronted with Watchtower dogma, indoctrination and the organization’s systematic mind control tactics. At some point one will have to stand up to the sanctimoniousness Watchtower “Spiritual Bullies” and their empty claims that they are God’s channel.

    I wish the best for you Nelly

  126. Nelly

    Dear Doug and Les Gray:

    Thank you so much for your kind and encouraging words. You cannot imagine how much I appreciate you guys. Thank you very very much for your good wishes. God bless

  127. My pleasure Nelly!

  128. Les Gray

    U are welcome Nelly; stay well.

  129. Mike

    Greetings, Doug. I’m going a bit off-subject now, but I must say I’ve always had trouble with the interpretation of this Scripture. To be more precise, I have a problem believing that marriage will be non-existent for those who receive an Earthly resurrection (or do you not believe in such a thing?). After all, from the very beginning, Jehovah made Adam and Eve to be a complement to one another. Man needed a woman, and thus a woman was created. It doesn’t make sense to believe that this original arrangement would be abolished for those who have an Earthly resurrection. This would, in essence, render as obsolete God’s original purpose for Man and Woman.

    The fact that Jesus said, in reference to men and women, that they can no longer die would imply that they will live immortal lives in Heaven, wouldn’t it?

  130. Mike

    Yes, Marc, I always struggled with that Scripture too.

  131. Nelly

    I understand why you are anonymous, I felt the same for a while. Thank you for such a great response, thank you for your well wishes and your understanding.

  132. If there is anything the New Testament teaches, it is that we all have an afterlife and if we believe in Christ, a heavenly destination. (2 Corinthians 5:1-6)

    Will we eventually return to earth? Revelation tells us that Jerusalem will come down out of heaven. (Revelation 21:2)

    Who knows what will be in store for us or where exactly we will wind up? All I know is that we will be happy and that God will be with us. As a matter of fact, that is what one of the names ascribed to Christ, Emmanuel, means: “God with us” (Matthew 1:23).

    When you couple this “clue” with Revelation 21:3 you see the entire picture of what God has in store for each of us:

    And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Look! God’s dwelling place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God.

    When you cut away all of the Watchtower’s “double speak” and elaborate explanations of why the scriptures don’t mean what they say, God’s purpose becomes really easy to understand. I believe that is what Jehovah intended.

    To state openly that Jehovah would have HIS book commissioned and written with the intent to instruct all of mankind as to His purposes and how to please Him, and then to put it into some elaborate “code” that only Charles Taze Russell and a select few could understand is complete and utter nonsense. The God I serve isn’t deceptive. However, there is one that is and I believe that he is the “god” that the Watchtower really follows.

    Matthew 23:15

    “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when you have succeeded, you make them twice as much a child of hell as you are.

    Doug

  133. I just have to say I looked in the King James Version in Acts and Daniel it does not mention apostates but only in your bible. I was baptized in 1987 and left the beginning of the year 2000. I myself do not believe you are a witness by your choice of words. Get your facts straight.

  134. Ingrid

    Hi! I’m Ingrid, and while I was never a baptized JW, I studied with them for a while. I also have an aunt who is a JW and I always heard all the lies of the JWs and believed a lot of them myself. I am lucky that I have found the true Jehovah, the One in the Bible!
    I’m just fed up with all the lies, because they will change God’s Word to fit in their beliefs! I absolutely love my relationship with God, He has pulled me out of the lies. I am a baptized Christian, in the Baptist religion, but religion is not the way to God, only through Jesus Christ, who died for us so that we’d be saved.

  135. I agree 100% Ingrid. Religion is just the road and there are many of them. As you found out, not all roads lead to the desired destination. There are many detours and dead ends when following organized religion.

    Christ is our desired destination. Faith is the compass that gets us there. How we get there is completely up to us.

  136. David

    You claim that shooting the messenger or attacking their message is what Jw’s do in their debates.. but that’s what you just did. derived from the watchtower or awake or not..it’s still his belief. Can you answer any of his questions?

    I am not a JW. Have not been for 16 years. But own up to our own words.

  137. David if you continue to try to pick fights on this blog I’ll ban you from it. If you want to participate in the dialogue instead of pushing me and others around and insulting us then you are free to do so.

    You have very bad manners.

  138. Anonymous

    ““Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.” – Matthew 24:34”

    Hello Doug;

    I accompanied my wife to the local KH this past Sunday and this very topic was mentioned during the Watchtower study. The new “adjusted understanding” (that really is the term they use) of this verse in Matthew is that there are members of the “anointed” who were born after 1914 but who are still “of that generation”. At least, that is how I understood the newly revised explanation of the fact that the 1914 generation are all mostly dead and gone now. They are adaptive, if nothing else and I was inwardly amused at how the audience/congregation seemed to accept this explanation without so much as a raised eyebrow.
    I have wondered whether the average witness has ever pondered the scope of the task which they claim that they will perform:
    According to the Worldometers population statistics, as I write this there are 7,224,780,000 people on the earth and 36,576,000 births so far this year with approximately half that many deaths so far this year at the same time, and about 4 babies are born each second. Now, it is the job of every Witness to spread the “good news” to as many people as possible and according to the “Society” the goal is to spread the news throughout the inhabited earth “and then the end will come”. At least, that is my understanding. Since there are only about 7 million Witnesses on the earth, they represent approximately 0.096% of the world’s population.So, no matter how much effort each Witness puts forth, the goal posts will always move far beyond the horizon by virtue of geometric population growth. The central goal of “the work”, the core of this religion, is based upon completing an impossible task, but I am certain that this will not deter them from continuing to try…

  139. Anonymous

    Hello again , Doug. I am the person who just submitted a comment regarding the impossibility of “spreading the good news” throughout the earth. I forgot to enter my name, and request that you just sign me as “George”. For obvious reasons, I will not submit an email address or further identifying information. Thanks for your understanding.

  140. George

    I have often thought that anyone who could sell this religion door – to – door as Witnesses do, could also sell dry sand to a thirsty Bedouin.

  141. And you would be right George. It is no wonder that I’m a sales manager and trainer. Being able to knock on doors until your knuckles bleed and wake some poor fella up out of his hangover on a cold Saturday morning to talk about religion is no small feat.

    I was recently at a sales and influence seminar and the presenter made the following statement:

    “If you want a great salesperson, hire a Jehovah’s Witness or a Mormon. They are fearless in making sales calls, they know how to deliver a presentation and they’ll never ever steal from you.”

    I laughed out loud and told him after the conference that I had been raised a JW. He was raised a Seventh Day Adventist. We are both now out of our initial religion of birth. We had a great laugh and a good discussion about how we came to terms with our religious affiliation and got free of it.

    In retrospect, I’m fifty years old and I have a sum total of forty-seven years of sales experience as a result of being raised a JW and going into sales as a vocation so it wasn’t a total loss. I learned how to effectively communicate my ideas both in writing and the spoken word.

    A very good observation George!

  142. Aren’t numbers fascinating George? They really do cut through the BS don’t they?

    Thanks for weighing in and giving us a realistic look at how silly the goal is when looked at from a scientific point of view.

  143. Its all good George!

    Thanks for your insight.

    Doug

  144. Nelly

    My goodness George. What you just posted made me cry, it made me cry of happiness because all this time I felt guilty about not going out on service and preaching what I truly don’t believe any more. I am crying of the news you posted, I believe that God knows my heart and he loves me for what I am and who I am not just because I put in x amount of hours a month. The guilt JW impose on us is sad because we feel we are not doing what Jehovah wants us to do but how can I go out preaching what I don’t believe? Thank you!!! thank you so much George. I hope I could thank you in person but this is as far as I can go for now. God bless you and Doug for bringing this information to many of us who feel the guilt and humiliation that the JW put us through.

  145. Nelly

    Thank you Doug for your website and all the encouragement you give many. Even those who don’t dare to post I know they are encouraged by what you write. I loved George’s observations, they were great. God Bless you two.

  146. Thank you Nelly! He already has in so many ways. That’s why I write. 🙂

  147. Nelly

    And I thank you, keep doing it you are helping many of us.

  148. George

    Nelly;

    ” I am crying of the news you posted, I believe that God knows my heart and he loves me for what I am and who I am not just because I put in x amount of hours a month.”

    I am quite certain that God does love you for what you are and if my little observation about the probability of achieving the goal of world dissemination of “the good news” has helped you, then I am happy to have made the observation. Yes, you cannot preach what you do not believe, Nelly. Living a lie is damaging to one’s emotional well being.
    ” Thank you!!! thank you so much George.”
    – you are very welcome and good fortune to you.

  149. George

    Doug;

    “And you would be right George. It is no wonder that I’m a sales manager and trainer. Being able to knock on doors until your knuckles bleed and wake some poor fella up out of his hangover on a cold Saturday morning to talk about religion is no small feat. ”

    Ah! And so your youthful training has stood you in good stead. It is good that you were able to transfer that training into a vocation and benefit from it in terms of a career. I have had contact with quite a few active Witnesses, but only know one who is similarly involved in sales as a career. Most of them seem to take up a trade, and those are the ones who are generally successful in terms of their financial situation. As you pointed out above, they do not seek higher education and/or attempt to carve out professional careers. I have noticed a peculiar thing about Witnesses though, and that is that they seem to have a great deal of respect for those who have made successes of themselves and have come into money. Possibly some sort of envy/admiration psychology going on there.

  150. Peter

    They invest in stocks, actually “high risk-high return” stocks. In fact, they are GAMBLING with disciples’ money. 7 million JWs, $1 per person monthly average (actually is more if you count that there are families that put much more at the contribution boxes), do the math ~ $7 million a month (more or less). Plus the money you might get from the people that contribute. Man, that’s a money-making machine! I just wonder how many companies worldwide make that ca$h every single month.

    Don’t forget the investments, don’t forget the tax evasion, because IT IS tax evasion. In 2011, French government imposed $60 million fine for tax evasion. Why did they do it? Put your mind to spin a little…

    And now, among the congregations, it’s being rumored the 100 years “thing” very much. “Something” will happen. Something= the end…? Of course, how will the WTS keep the money rolling in? By shedding “new light” and extending the “dates” to present time.

    Last but not least. Has anybody understood that all this is like a pyramid/MLM business scheme, based on religion? Isn’t the WTS a multi-billion corporation with assets, huge bank accounts and investments in every possible stock? Not to mention the H.R. Riley-Philip Morris and the US Navy Deal scandals.

    Where do you fit in all this? You are just a non-paid, volunteering distributor of their literature, spending your life, your time for their agenda. To bring more money to them. Because it’s all about money and power. Weirdest thing is that they preach “to accumulate treasure in heaven, not on earth”. I guess this is valid for everyone in the rank ‘n’ file masses, not the big boys. They don’t give account to anyone for nothing, even blaming everyone else for their false prophecies and tactics among the decades. Tactics that destroyed thousands of families, millions of lives, careers and relationships.

    Thank God I am out of there. The day I decided this “game” ended for me, was the day I found “true peace”. Wish all JWs around the world the same…

  151. Peter

    Very nice blog, Doug. I really enjoyed the articles and this comments section. Keep walking mate! People must know what the Borg is all about and get out of there ASAP. I wish I could open my parents’ eyes for all the things that happen in front of their very eyes, yet they deny them…

  152. Nelly

    So very true it’s funny that some JW’s don’t even have a life insurance policy I am insurance agent and have spoken with many JW’s in the past and they keep telling me that it’s not necessary to spend their money on a life insurance policy but I bet you anything at those with bigwigs of their New York office definitely have big sums of life insurance policies out. I feel so bad when I talk to people like that because their families will not be taken care of by the JWs or even the congregation. So so sad

  153. Thanks Peter!

    People see only what they want to see.

    That is what is so maddening about having a JW in the family. The falsehood is so obvious and so easily proven but only to those who have their eyes open. I liken it to describing a color to someone blind from birth. It can’t be done.

    Until a Jehovah’s Witness is ready to see the cracks in the Watchtower, pointing them out will only enrage them and put a strain on your relationship with them.

    A Jehovah’s Witness convinced against his will is of the same opinion still.

    Christ Himself could come down from heaven and tell any JW in no uncertain terms that the Watchtower is teaching falsehood and they would claim that Christ was actually Satan the devil “transforming himself into an angel of light.”

    Sad but true. A Jehovah’s Witness is simply unwilling to accept that their beloved Watchtower could ever be wrong, deceitful or only motivated by money or power. It was hard for me. It started with a single issue and you’ll laugh when you know what it is:

    I tried to prove to a Christian co-worker that Christ wasn’t hung on a cross and was instead hung on a pole (as the Watchtower teaches). I studied the Greek. I studied the history of the Roman empire. I read everything I could get my hands on. Then I came to the horrifying realization that the use of the Greek words stauros (upright pole or stake) and xylon (wood) doesn’t exclude the use of a cross member. I then realized that we have telephone poles all over the United States and yet every single one of them has a cross member. That doesn’t prevent us from calling them “poles” although a more accurate term for them would have been “telephone crosses.”

    In my youthful innocence I decided to write the Watchtower Bethel desk to get their take on what I found. They wrote back and said that while my argument was compelling it didn’t take away from the fact that we shouldn’t use the instrument of Christ’s death as part of our worship. They said “It doesn’t matter what Christ died on whether it was a cross or a torture stake.”

    I found that disturbing for three reasons:

      1. That wasn’t my argument. I was merely asking how they could be so sure that Christ didn’t die on a cross. They completely skirted the issue and defaulted back to a totally different argument i.e. idolatry.

      2. The words of the Apostle Paul stated clearly: “May I never boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.” Galatians 6:14. More importantly the words of Christ Himself brought the point even closer to home: “Then Jesus said to his disciples, “Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross and follow me.” Matthew 16:24.

      3. When cornered they made their accusation against all of Christendom i.e. that they use a false pagan symbol in their worship a non-issue, a “straw man.”

    The Watchtower desk purposely skirted the issue, totally avoided my argument and then went against scripture when they stated that the instrument of Christ’s death wasn’t important or to be used in worship when Paul and even Christ Himself very clearly stated otherwise.

    It wasn’t long afterward that I got a very stern talking to from my local body of elders regarding my attitude and “who was I to question the Watchtower’s wisdom?” I was told that I was merely a member of the “great crowd” and not anointed or a member of the Governing Body and that my opinions were dangerous. What DID matter was that we don’t question what the Watchtower has already established as “the truth.”

    I then came to a very clear and brutal understanding that the Watchtower leadership and their minions aren’t interested in truth. They are merely interested in control and maintaining the status quo.

    That was the beginning of my research into all of the teachings of the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society. It was so painful and difficult. Yet as each of the core teachings of the Watchtower were challenged using scripture and subsequently torn to shreds I started to realize that I was finding the real honest to goodness truth of what the Bible really taught.

    It was a very long, sometimes lonely, often painful road to where I am today but Peter, it was worth every step it took to get here.

    Doug

  154. Marc

    I agree Doug with your view that it’s virtually impossible to convince a strong in the faith witness to think otherwise. When I was a witness if someone would disagree, I would listen, but it was always with the intent of trying to see how I could reason with them to see my JW point of view.

    I was DF’d for good cause, no argument there, but it wasn’t until I began the path back to the meetings and talking with the elders re the steps to be reinstated that I realized there was something amiss.

    When I went back I hadn’t been involved in any unscriptural conduct for about a year a half though it had been 5 years since my expulsion. And the 3 1/2 years in between that I was in a monogamous relationship, so depending on the POV that time period is debatable. At any rate, when I began going back I spoke to the brothers of my intent and they were very welcoming, etc. but said “we’ll need to give you some time so we can observe since its been awhile” adding that of course there should be no communication with the congregation members. The elders were nice about it, they were simply following the rules.

    Ok, that sounded reasonable. But I thought, what does observing me coming to meetings really accomplished? Anyone can attend meetings and it really is no evidence of repentance. If it was there would be no DF’ing since most who are DF’d had been attending meetings at the time. Wouldn’t you need to actually get to know me to determine repentance? But if we can’t talk, you can’t get to know me. So, that kind of struck me. I wanted to worship but was being held back so I could be observed. After a few months of regular attendance, I met with the elders again and was commended for my progress (huh?) but that they still needed to observe and give me time, plus the assembly was coming up and they were busy with assembly prep. Basically, the implication was ‘you’re doing good, the assembly is over in a month and once that’s done, we’re ready to reinstate you’.

    I accepted that, but felt this process of reinstatement didn’t seem right. How could a person who wants to worship be held back for no reason other than observation? A month or two, ok I’ll accept that as discipline. But if you have to wait months to reinstate someone who isn’t doing anything wrong and you;re aware of that, that’s just punishment isn’t it? So I researched it. I read the scriptures on expulsion and repentance. I realized there is no scriptural basis for complete shunning, only expulsion for wrongdoing. Those are different concepts. Where the scriptures speak of not eating or drinking with someone known as a sinner, it’s referencing the social norm of the time period relating to hospitality.

    I had been an adherent of shunning for 45 years and for the first time realized it was wrong. Expulsion for unrepentant sin is scriptural. However, once a person repents and seeks forgiveness, there is no scriptural basis for shunning anymore period. There is no biblical example where God did not immediately accept a person back after expressed and evident repentance. Only the converse time after time. And of the main example of expulsion in the Greek scriptures, the man expelled in Corinth for immoral conduct, after less than a year, Paul told the congregation they were being too harsh in not excepting him back already.

    After realizing this and realizing the negative effect this one practice has on so many lives that was enough for me to know I couldn’t in good conscience go back to that way of worship. And since then, I’ve learned of other practices or POV’s that are simply not biblical but rather organizational dogma.

    But if I had not been on the outside looking in I would never have came to that conclusion.
    Amazing and thank God.

  155. NEL

    Sad but true. I knew of a sister who grew up in the truth and fell in love with an “unbeliever” and was disfellowshipped for fornication. She committed suicide. Her only family were the brothers, her only acquaintances were the brothers and when she was disfelloshipped she became very depressed because she had NO COMMUNICATION with anybody anymore so she ended her life. I’m sure she was not the only one who has ever done something like that. Sadly but true.

  156. NEL

    George:

    Thank you so much for your words of encouragement. God Bless you.

  157. Mike

    Thank you, Anonymous, for giving a heads-up of the “new understanding” of “this generation”. I know that the WT has said, for several decades now, that there was an “overlapping” of those anointed, who were alive in 1914, with those of the anointed who were younger contemporaries of the 1914 generation (but who were born after 1914). I just had to see what you were talking about, so I visited JW.org and looked up the article you were referencing (it is in the Feb 2014 study article for April 6th). Indeed, the WT now claims that there are two distinct groups which comprise “this generation” Here are the two paragraphs to which Anonymous was referring:

    “15. In his detailed prophecy about the conclusion of this system of things, Jesus said: “This generation will by no means pass away until all these things happen.” (Read Matthew 24:33-35.) We understand that in mentioning “this generation,” Jesus was referring to two groups of anointed Christians. The first group was on hand in 1914, and they readily discerned the sign of Christ’s presence in that year. Those who made up this group were not merely alive in 1914, but they were spirit-anointed as sons of God in or before that year.—Rom. 8:14-17.

    16 The second group included in “this generation” are anointed contemporaries of the first group. They were not simply alive during the lifetime of those in the first group, but they were anointed with holy spirit during the time that those of the first group were still on earth. Thus, not every anointed person today is included in “this generation” of whom Jesus spoke. Today, those in this second group are themselves advancing in years. Yet, Jesus’ words at Matthew 24:34 give us confidence that at least some of “this generation will by no means pass away” before seeing the start of the great tribulation. This should add to our conviction that little time remains before the King of God’s Kingdom acts to destroy the wicked and usher in a righteous new world.—2 Pet. 3:13.” END QUOTE

    Interesting; and how much time COULD this buy the WT (a semi-conservative estimate)? Let’s talk about anointed 20-year-olds who were baptized in 1914 (easy math – they would have been born in 1894). Let’s say they all had died by 1994 (they would have lived until they were 100 – heh heh heh). Under this scenario, there could very easily be anointed, born in 1964, who would have lived contemporaneously with those who were born in 1894. Those anointed who had been born in 1964 are now a mere 50 years old. So there you have it – this System could very well last AT LEAST until 2054.

    Remember the WT picturing a group of white-haired elderly people – I believe this issue was printed sometime during the 1980’s (30-some years ago)? The title was “Millions Now Living Will Never Die”. My oh my…..

  158. Jodie

    The following is from: http://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/questions/did-jesus-die-on-cross/
    “Many view the cross as the most common symbol of Christianity. However, the Bible does not describe the instrument of Jesus’ death, so no one can know its shape with absolute certainty.

    Notice that they write no that one can know its shape with “absolute certainty.” So, why make an issue of something one does not know with absolute certainty? The answer is simple when one reviews the history of this religion. They want to convince their followers and prospective followers that all other Christians are pagans and that they, the Jehovah’s Witnesses, are the only ones who know the truth.
    I have read enough Watchtowers to be familiar with the circular and inaccurate arguments the Watchtower uses to try and prove their points. Notice how in the same paragraph of this article the Watchtower states, “Still, the Bible provides evidence that Jesus died, not on a cross, but on an upright stake.”

    If the Bible did provide that so called evidence then there would be absolute certainty as to the shape of the instrument Jesus was impaled upon.

    The Watchtower states “The Bible also uses the Greek word xy′lon as a synonym for stau•ros′. (Acts 5:30; 1 Peter 2:24) This word means “wood,” “timber,” “stake,” or “tree.” * The Companion Bible thus concludes: “There is nothing in the Greek of the N[ew] T[estament] even to imply two pieces of timber.”

    There is also nothing to imply one piece of timber. This in itself would imply there were not two pieces of wood or timber.

    The next argument is the one that paints other Christians as pagans.
    “God rejects worship that uses images or symbols, including the cross. God commanded the Israelites not to use “the form of any symbol” in their worship, and Christians are likewise told to “flee from idolatry.”—⁠Deuteronomy 4:15-19; 1 Corinthians 10:14.”

    If one reads the scriptures provided by the Watchtower one would see they mean something a little different than what the Watchtower is saying. These scriptures show that God rejects the worship of images and symbols, which is idolatry.

    The Menorah is a well-known symbol of Judaism. God himself provided the instructions on how to construct the golden lamp in the book of Exodus. The Jews were never instructed to worship the Menorah nor do they do so. Having a religious symbol is not a sin. Worshipping a religious symbol would be a sin. But the Watchtower does not make that distinction in their writings.

    Interestingly enough, though they try to give the appearance of being biblically accurate, every image of Jesus’ crucifixion the Watchtower puts out is dishonest. Matthew 27:37 tells us that the charging plate was place above Jesus’ head. The Watchtower puts out images of Jesus being crucified with the charging plate over his raised hands.

    In order for the charging plate to be over Jesus head and to still be able to be read as is claimed in John 19 Jesus’ hands and arms would need to be spread out.

    This begs the question, why is the Watchtower trying to deceive people.

    Surely someone has mentioned to the higher ups about the location of the charging plate before now.

    Many Jehovah’s Witnesses are too hard hearted to listen to what is in the scriptures. Their Watchtowers are their Bibles. Any one who believes something different than what the Watchtower says is an apostate and an opposer.

    In the Bible there are two very significant stories. One is the story of the nation of Israel and how they turned away from God and his laws and began worshipping idols. Who was it who lead these people astray? Their leaders.

    The other story is of the Jewish people who had the Son of God walking among them healing their sick, feeding their hungry and they either did not recognize he was the Son of God or they were too afraid to admit he was the Son of God. Who made them afraid? Their leaders.

  159. George

    Yes Mike, that was the article that I was referring to. As you said;

    “Under this scenario, there could very easily be anointed, born in 1964, who would have lived contemporaneously with those who were born in 1894. Those anointed who had been born in 1964 are now a mere 50 years old. So there you have it – this System could very well last AT LEAST until 2054.”

    – Yes, a strained solution to the dilemma of that dying (actually quite dead) generation which will now provide a continually self-renewing supply of “1914 generation members”. The problem with it is that it practically screams of grasping at straws. Or so I thought at the time. But the rank and file still bought it.

    But another issue that I find perplexing is their continued acceptance of the edict that when the UN declares “peace and security”, the end is just around the corner. What “peace and security” are they babbling about? Only their unwillingness to assess politics could account for such an idea. The UN is actually complicit (together with NATO) in fomenting destabilization and insecurity along with wars aplenty throughout the world. I don’t want to turn this into a political discussion, but for the past 20 years or so it has appeared to me that the only “world government ” we are likely to see is the establishment of the NWO (New World Order). Certainly the political situation in Ukraine, the Middle East, and unrest in nearly all parts of the world does not look to bode well for “peace and security” so far as I can see.

  160. Anonymous

    oh I tried that…they said jesus was the first and the last to be resuurected by Jehovah himself….any thoughts about it?

  161. I like what Paul stated about Christ in his letter to the Colossians. He explains that Christ created everything that was created both in heaven and on earth.

    Colossians 1:16:

    For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities– all things have been created through Him and for Him.

    Interesting that many try to use the “first and last” as a reason for Christ NOT to be God.

    Revelation 22:12-13

    “Behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to render to every man according to what he has done. “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end.”

    You see the Jehovah’s Witnesses claim that this particular scripture refers to Jehovah as the Alpha and Omega. However if you look at the end of the passage you’ll see that this was in fact Jesus Christ speaking and referring to Himself as the Alpha and Omega which makes perfect sense because Alpha is the first letter of the Greek alphabet and Omega is the last.

  162. Garrett

    That is an amazing point about the charging plate. I know Ray Franz talked about Jesus dying on a cross.
    I’d like to see all the evidence pro or con on this one.

  163. Jodie that was one of the most intelligent and unbiased posts I’ve seen on this blog regarding the cross versus stake argument. Well done and most appreciated! Thank you for bringing a fresh and logical take on this hotly debated subject!

  164. Jodie

    I thank you for your commendation. I used to be a Jehovah’s Witness. I was baptized very young, I was just 14 when I was baptized at an assembly held at Dodger Stadium. I grew up in a home divided over religion. My mother was a Jehovah’s Witness and my father belonged to the Worldwide Church of God (Armstrong). The religion my father belonged to was similar to the Seventh Day Adventist religion, they keep the Sabbath and Holy days, they tithe and refrain from eating pork and other unclean creatures. My sister, brother and I went to religious services 5 times per week. Three times with my Mom and two times with my Dad. Then there were the at home Bible Studies sometimes with my Mom and sometimes with my Dad, neither were real consistant. In the Bible studies with my Mom, she would always point out what was false in my Dad’s religion, namely that we are no longer under the Mosaic Law. Back then the Watchtower made no bones about who would survive Armageddon. Only the Jehovah’s Witnesses would survive. Can you imagine growing up thinking your Father would be killed when Armageddon came, any day now, because he kept the Sabbath, or because he didn’t get pepperoni on his pizza. I remember my Mother coaching us from a very young age (about 5 or so) not to sing the songs at my Dad’s church or take part in the prayers. We didn’t do as my Mom said. My Dad was very strict and authoritarian. I can’t imagine what he would have done if we had been staring straight ahead while everyone else had their heads bowed. I would go home from church with my Dad thinking Armageddon was going to get me too, but that was better than my Dad getting me with his belt. Us kids never told my Mom we were not following her orders. She would have been either real sad or real mad and we just didn’t want to find out which. So we lead double lives of a sort. Besides, I think we were smart enough to know she was not going to ask my Dad if we were singing the songs at his church or not. Now my Dad, he never discussed with us the doctrines of the Jehovah’s Witnesses. So we thought they must have all been true since he never said anything. My sister, being the oldest, was the first to tell my Dad she did not want to go to church with my him anymore because his religion was a false religion. My sister had to go with my Dad to the pastor, Mr Ritenbaugh was his name, to discuss the decision and the doctrines. This episode was termed by my mother as my sister “making her stand”. My Dad’s and sister’s relationship was utterly destroyed. My Dad completely ignored my sister. There were no greetings, if he passed her in our narrow hallway he completely ignored her. My Mom was always asking me when I was going to “make my stand.” Sometimes she did this in front of other Jehovah’s Witnesses. I looked at the way my Dad treated my sister as a sign that his religion really was false because it did not teach him how to love his own flesh and blood daughter unconditionally. So I “made my stand” next. I did not have to talk to the pastor. My Dad just said ok. Then a few weeks later he left my Mom for another woman. It was yet another sign for us kids that there was something wrong with my Dad’s religion. At some point my parents got back together. During the first few years of reconciliation my Mom did not attend meetings so us kids did not attend meetings. As a result us kids fell away from the so-called “Truth.” I could not buy into the notion that Jesus was really Michael the Archangel and even after I was baptized I felt dumb telling anyone that. I also did not agree that only Jehovah’s Witnesses would be saved. I feel it is wrong that Jehovah’s Witnesses push their children into getting baptized so young. But that is neither here nor there. My Mom went back to being a Jehovah’s Witness and my parents eventually got divorced then my Mom remarried a Jehovah’s Witness (a very sweet man) they were married over 25 years but she died right around this time last year. Before my Mom died I had been doing research for a college paper on the Free Masons and I guess you know where that led me… right to Charles Taze Russell. I did very intense research on the organization’s history. I checked and double checked resources because I felt such concern that my mother belonged to such an organization but at the same time I would not say anything about any person’s religion if I were not absolutely certain of my facts. I did this out of love and concern for my Mom who was in her late sixties at the time. When the time came for me to speak with my mother (she lived in Alaska and I live in Ohio) she was scornful . She started screaming into the phone,”God’s name is Jehovah” over and over. She would say things like “I don’t know who’s gotten a hold of you..” or when I told her about the pyramid at Russell’s grave she told me in a sweet as pie voice (patronizing) “Why don’t you go take a picture Jodie?” My feelings were deeply hurt. Not because my Mom stayed with the Jehovah’s Witnesses but because my Mom could not believe I was telling her about her organization out of love and concern. She acted like I was some sort of agent of Satan and a liar to boot. When discussing the fall of Jerusalem I asked her how come there were no archeologists who believed Jerusalem fell in 607? She answered that archeologists were under the influence of Satan.I realized then and there that there was no way to have a reasonable discussion. I continued with my research anyway. After I studied the history of the organization I then moved on and started studying the doctrines. In the process of doing all this research I became a true Christian. Like Doug I do not belong to any religious organization. I was very happy to run across this Web site. I can express myself when the need arises. I share my beliefs with friends, co-workers or whoever will listen. I do not believe we should be dividing ourselves into sects.

  165. Nelly

    Jodie: I’m so glad you are now free. I sadly see the wastin time that has been through the years for me and my family. I see the many young kids who are outcast because they don’t follow what JW think. I am so worried about a young man who recently was disfellowshiped and is so alone. Nobody talks to him and it hurts me to see how much he is suffering. I still talk with him and encourage him but in one point I thought he might commit suicide. I pray for the many others in his situation.

  166. Marc

    God bless all of you who post here. There is so much hurt brought on by adherence to the distorted beliefs and the inability for individuals within the belief system to simply live their own authentic lives.

    There are days when just knowing someone else understands this pain provides the comfort needed to get by.

  167. Thank you Marc! Sometimes shared pain turns into shared joy.

    Doug

  168. Still_Stuck

    Doug, you present the facts in here intelligently. I’m still in this rut unfortunately. But as my wife and I have resolved for now, we will not let the things pushed into us by the WT to be upon them. My kids deserved a better life than being under these mind controlling, cash sucking, hypocrites. We know we have a choice to make eventually.

    Thanks for your awesome blogs.

  169. Jodie

    Still Stuck,
    It is very difficult for children to grow up in a home that is divided by religion. I know that first hand. When I was trying to convince my mother that the organization was not what she thought it was I made the mistake of concentrating on history. It was too easy for my mother to write off what I said, either with, “We’re not like that anymore,” or “We have had a lot of new light since then.” My mother was a Jehovah’s Witness for over 50 years. Sadly my mother died last year an ever faithful Jehovah’s Witness who believed I was some sort of Satanic Opposer. I believe my mother conveyed this opinion to my sister who is a Jehovah’s Witness and who ever since my mother passed away has demonstrated she wants nothing to do with me. If I had it to do over again I would start by buying the actual books through Amazon.com or E-bay.and I would focus on doctrines about Jesus. Jehovah’s Witnesses have been groomed, as it were, not to listen to what is written on the Internet. Put their own books in their hands. Jehovah’s Witnesses believe Jesus is only the Mediator for the 144,000. The funny thing is most Jehovah’s Witnesses do not know that this is their doctrine. My mother certainly didn’t. My sister doesn’t. I have a copy of the little brown book that spells this doctrine out. I should have sent it to my Mother. I am thinking of sending it to my sister. I like this blog because it is not just about bashing Witnesses. Doug has mentioned being a follower of Christ rather than an organization. That is exactly where I am too. There are a lot of problems with the Jehovah’s Witnesses’ theology about Jesus. It just isn’t a Bible based theology. Jesus is not Michael the Archangel. Jesus is worthy of worship. Jesus was not reincarnated (given a new body) he was resurrected (his old body was made to stand again). Jesus has been ruling among his enemies since he ascended into heaven after his resurrection not in 1874 or 1914. I feel like something big is going to happen with the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society before the end of this decade (2020).About a year before my Mom died she told me they were being told to set aside extra food and water. I thought that sounded weird. Then I noticed they have become more involved in worldly affairs such as with the UN (mostly in Africa) and The New York Community Trust. The name Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of Florida is being used in New York with the New York Community Trust. I think something is up.

  170. Still_Stuck

    @Jodie, thanks for your experience . You are correct about a divided household with regards to religion. That is why I am slowly and trying to impart all the knowledge that I am getting either through Doug Shield’s amazing blogs or the other sites that I find very logical and more focused on what Jesus said while he was on earth. In my thirties, I know something was amiss and not right whenever attending meetings and receiving “new lights”. I lived in another part of the world for some time and helped establish congregations there. That part of the world is not free in practicing our beliefs. I experienced jail time and harassment from the local authorities because I was one of the 2 elders there before. All I want to say is, I want my family to be in unison to wherever we go. I know in my heart that our Lord Jesus Christ will see me through.

  171. Thanks for sharing Jodie and yes you are right. JW’s have been inoculated against attacks on their history: “That was then and this is now.” It really doesn’t matter what you say or do. Until they start to see the cracks you can’t help them much. They just go into “shut down mode” and cease any communication with you.

    Doug

  172. ingrid

    It’s funny you should mention that. I have never talked to a JW about their history, but it would be surprising to me that they would say “that was then and this is now.” Of course, I don’t agree with them at all. I think their teachings are all wrong, and they just have their own agenda and don’t really care for what the Bible REALLY says. But to me that would be a very easy argument to talk about because they often say that they don’t celebrate this or that, or do this or that because of its origins. If evil origins will determine whether we should adhere to something, even after it has changed to something good, then we shouldn’t adhere to Jehovah’s Witness teachings, because it’s one lie after another. Their whole religion is based on lies, and if you go back to the older books and magazines (which are pretty difficult to find) you will see very opposing points of view from those they hold now…. yet the Bible hasn’t changed. God doesn’t change, so why are their teachings changing more times than the seasons in a year?

  173. ingrid

    I have an aunt who is a JW, but we she decided to ignore my family after I became Baptist. Does anyone know what they are saying nowadays about the end of the system of things?

  174. Ingrid you make some very compelling points and I strongly agree with everything you just wrote!

    Doug

  175. Oh its still coming. LOL! Forty years later and it’s still “just around the corner” Ingrid. They are having to scramble because the generation that saw 1914 has passed on. Now they are in damage control mode because their silly date of 1914 no longer carries any weight. Time has again shown them to be the charlatans that they are. Now they are trying to say that anyone who became “anointed” during the last century has somehow extended the “generation that sees all these things occurring”.

    Thanks for commenting Ingrid!

    Doug

  176. Joseph

    About the year 1914: it seems to me that CT Russell linked the great pyramid of Giza to 1914 using calculations based on the length of the Internal chambers of the pyramid and equating the inches to years leading up to 1914. He called the great pyramid the great stone witness of God. Actually the pyramids were linked to all kinds of false Egyptian gods! I ask myself, “would Jehovah have anything to do with 1914 especially being linked to Egypt’s false gods. never! CT Russell then stated that the pyramids backed up his calculations of Bible chronology leading to the end of the world in 1914. His chronology is debatable at best.

    When Jesus said neither he nor the angels knew the day or the hour he was not saying he did not know the chronology of world events. Both he and the angels witnessed the exact dates that all the events happened and if it were a simple matter of mathematics he would have known the day and the hour as would the angels.

    Thus the real problem with the teaching of the generation is not the plain and clear definition, but that the watch Tower Society will not admit to the error of 1914 which could lead to a biblical sized exodus from the organization! 1914 is clear gorilla in the room but for now they are focusing on the definition generation but the truth is becoming painfully obvious!

    Yes it is true that Rutherford eventually condemned Russell’s teaching but the origin of 1914 and its association with Egyptology cannot be denied. I ask, can something crooked be made straight and can you feed off the table of demons and the table of Jehovah ?

    No one can say 1914 was then but this is now. Why? Because they are still clinging to CT Russels wrong teaching and then is still very much Now! I pray for my beloved brothers , family and myself stuck in this cistern. we truly need to be saved.

  177. Outstanding observations! Excellent on all points especially the thought that if it were a simple mathematical formula then the end of the world would be known to all of heaven as well as Satan and his demons. The Watchtower leadership has to cling doggedly to the date of 1914. It is the central cornerstone of the Jehovah’s Witness faith. If 1914 fails then there is simply no saving this cult from, as you so aptly described, an exodus of Biblical proportions!

    Great points all around! Thank you for that most excellent post Joseph.

    Doug

  178. Joseph

    Ty for the opportunity to express myself .

  179. You know that’s really all any of us wants here. A place to voice our thoughts, fears, doubts and concerns and possibly solutions!

    Please continue to post Joseph. You’re quite a gifted writer.

    Doug

  180. Jodie

    The interesting fact about those chambers that Joseph mentioned is that they had a tendency to uh… wink wink uh..grow.So that basically they measured whatever Russell wanted them to measure and therefore added up to whatever number CT Russell wanted them add up to. . Russell was a bit of a scammer. He sold Miracle Wheat and Miracle Beans and an assortment of Miracle Cures.

  181. Yes he did! He is guilty of fraud and it was proven to be so by a court of law.

    Fred Franz was brought before a Scottish court to see if he could translate a very basic Hebrew text that a first year Hebrew student could easily accomplish. He was unable to do so. Yet he produced the New World “Translation” almost single handedly.

    Kind of makes you go “Hmmm!”

  182. What is so tragic is that these fools start believing their own BS and then they begin to legislate behavior in the ranks. They appoint themselves “God’s Appointed Physicians” and then proceed to tell people what medical treatment they can and can’t have. It really is tragic because idiots are born every second and they will follow a con artist to their own demise simply because he SAYS that he is God’s appointed messenger. Nothing but a bunch of baloney! I bought it because I was raised in it. I finally grew up enough to smell what the Watchtower has been shoveling all these years. It is time for a lot of other JW’s to do the same and they are leaving the WT in droves as a result!

  183. Nelly

    Thank you all for the continued information. I finally went on vacation without the guilt of “oh my god! I’m having too much fun” I went to a place other than a congregation, a convention or the New York Office. I finally had fun, I had so much fun with my husband, we didn’t break laws, we didn’t do anything immoral we freely enjoyed ourselves. I felt I was finally free, free from criticism from the ill comments of those JW who would ask “and you didn’t go to the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society office? You spent ALL THAT MONEY and didn’t go to a meeting? Didn’t go to a kingdom hall? NO I DIDN’T and I feel great! I feel free and happy. I know God knows my heart. I am not a bad person just because I don’t attend a meeting or a convention or a Kingdom Hall, etc. Thank you for all your help Doug. Bless You always.

  184. Nelly

    Many changes being made. They have a website now. jw.org all of their stuff is on it from theocratic ministry flyers to watchtowers. Interesting, they even have a new bible. Makes you go MMMM

  185. Thank you Nelly! I’m happy that this blog has helped you. It helped me as well!

  186. A 1975 Survivor

    After reading the post in this blog, I wonder, and I am sure many do, if the Watchtower will implode within itself? With easy access to data and clear evidences plus the Watchtower selling their historic buildings to fund the court’s order to pay to the victims, how long will this organization will unfold?

  187. Nelly

    What I don’t understand is why is the Watchtower selling all the properties in New York. They are making a big hipe about them moving to another town. Beside the obvious they of course are making a killing with the profit out of the buildings. What is your take on this? Thank you.

  188. A 1975 Survivor

    I don’t think the Watchtower is making a kill when they sold the Brooklyn buildings. I believe the people are waking up from deception from the WT. They used to print hardbound books and Awake and Watchtower magazines used to have 32 pages. Now the books are softbound and the magazines were cut in half. Hardly much meat in them like they used to. Something is going on and the GB is not talking. I wonder if the GB are considering a colony like they did with Beth Sarim. We shall see.

  189. NEL

    dear A 1975 Surviror: I actually asked why and they said that the society was simplifying and that they were just trying to save money because the society spent a lot of money printing said material. Like you said I wounder what is going on? They are now promoting the http://www.jw.org website and encouraging us to just stand in corners with the bill boards like they did many years ago. What is your take on that?

  190. Marc

    If I may add some thoughts too, I was a longtime adherent (45 years). To me it does seem like a massive shift in publishing and the manner of preaching. In some respects its as if the org is finally coming into the 21st century as far as branding itself.

    The GB today is a completely different body from the GB of the 70’s and I definitely see even more of a tightening down of the hatchets with this newer body. I think in some respects they’ve seen the need to appeal to more people and a more diverse population on the move, yet have the challenge of the fast and furious internet in which anyone can research the org’s history.

    House to house today just isn’t the same as 30 years ago. So, they began to gradually promote more street and informal witnessing, malls, train and bus stops, etc. Now, in the age of iPads and tablets they have to go tech. They are behind the curve in this compared to other churches and brilliantly came up with the idea to promote a new and improved website for the masses – and of course promote it as the most translated website in the world. Say what you will about the content they are masters at marketing their message!

    Sadly, it will seem peculiar to long timers in the faith,but few will question what is going on. And newer converts will never question the reasons behind this, or why just a few short years ago the internet was anathema but now “God’s tool to reach many millions” with the Bible’s message. They will never question why congregations were asked to purge their libraries some years back of any of the old Russell/Rutherford and pre-1980 publications and why most of these did not show up in the WT library CD’s back in the day or the old watchtower.org site.

    Interesting times indeed…

  191. Amazing observations and writing Marc!

  192. Marc

    Thanks Doug for the kind words. I think this is a great forum and the people who you attract seem to have a real love of truth and right. That says a lot about you too so kudos my friend.

  193. A 1975 Survivor

    Nell, you ask a very good question. I believe there is more to it than what they say.

  194. Nell and Survivor,

    Please read the following article I wrote a while ago:

    http://thewatchtowerfiles.com/crisis/

    I think it will shed a LOT of light on why they are selling off their massive holdings now.

    Doug

  195. Les Gray

    Using technology to reach more people is the Watchtower Organizations plan.

    But the flip side of using technology; especially the internet is more people have access to the true history of the Watchtower and the lies and deceptions the organization has fostered. Today more than ever before. What ever has a advantage also has a backside. For those browsing the internet it is a easy move of the mouse or the stylus from JW.org to the seven screens of the Watchtower or other site that tell the true tale of the deceptive Watchtower organization. It is just a matter of time. More and more people will get the true story behind the organization.

    The internet provides more and more people today with easy access to the true history of the Watchtower.

    Even those still in the grips of the Watchtower dogma.

  196. Les Gray

    Marc,

    You are correct. Just a few short years ago the internet was anathema but now “God’s tool to reach many millions” with the Bible’s message is the new battle cry. In this age of iPads and tablets the WT organization has to go high tech. And they are way behind the curve compared to other organization who early on came up with ideas to promote new and improved websites .

    I believe that potential newer WT converts today with tech skills and internet access will ask more question and have easy access to tons of information about the WT that was not available to newer converts just a few years ago.Things will not change over night. The WT will still snag unsuspecting new converts into their ranks. But more people today will be better informed and have a lot more information about the deceptive WT before they make a decision to get involved with the WT than ever before.

    Information is power. In the past the WT has been able to operate in the shadows, spreading lies and misinformation. Today with the click of a mouse or a stylus information about the WT and it’s practices and deceptions can be checked and verified in a matter of minutes

    If I had access to the information that is available today on line about the WT organization I doubt that I would have gotten involved with the WT. I am sure that applies to many others who got caught up in the web of WT lies.

  197. Marc

    Les, you make valid points. After years of what appears to be denial, I believe the org leaders are now fully on board with this reality and have a full court press in effect, taking the offensive instead of defensive posture. If you can’t beat ’em, join ’em, but don’t just join them – do it better than the rest to prove it must be God’s hand in the matter and not just darn good marketing.

  198. Les Gray

    The age of Information technology (IT) is impacting the amount of money coming in from printed material such as newspapers, books and magazines in all sorts of businesses. The WT money supply from print material through door to door contact has to be significantly drying up because of IT. Make no mistake about it the WT like all other businesses is cognizant of these facts.

    The WT execs know they have to get on the Information technology bank wagon. They resisted the tide as long as they could. That is why the WT finally made the shift from anti-technology to their new battle cry,

    “God’s tool to reach many millions” with the Bible’s message.”

    This is a good marketing strategy and a catchy phrase for the WT. But the simple truth is that the WT finally realized that if they did not get online that would get left behind. All one has to remember is the WT is “Big Business.

    Also today there are already over 10 private online sites were you can buy WT supplies and products.

    Make no mistake about it WT execs are currently working on a plan to go commercial full blast as soon as they work out the details of their new battle plan for the use of distributing WT material with the use of IT.

    How the WT will attempt to capitalize with the use of IT remains to be seen.

    How quickly their IT strategy will be rolled out remains to be seen.

    If their plan will be successful also remains to be seen.

  199. Garrett

    Hence the value of sites like this. We all should be online exposing the WT so the public don’t find the disease ridden hypodermic needle in the haystack.

  200. The internet has caused the WT a LOT of problems and will continue to do so. Great observations Les!

    Doug

  201. I fully expect that the WT will start to become a lot more transparent and “friendly” as a result of all of their dirty laundry being easily accessible to the masses. That is the ONLY way that they can gain any credibility with the tools available to the common man.

    Doug

  202. Nice analogy Garrett! As always eloquent and brutally honest.

    Doug

  203. Marc

    In what was to be my final conversation with my father before he completely closed the door, I revealed to him my eyes had opened up to the realization that despite all the exalting proclamations, the organization as I now saw it was actually quite ordinary and in many respects not unlike a successful large corporation or other large religious organizations. Point of view is crucial. I was outside looking in, he was inside looking out. That will be the tricky part of any attempts at transparency of the org’s part – how to appear transparent while at the same time appear set apart as God’s channel

  204. Jesse

    Hello Guys,

    I am really grateful I have found this site. I have a problem and I really don’t know where to begin. Anyway, I was just recently married to a woman I have known and loved for almost 11 years. We have been through thick and thin and that is what I am always proud of. We had to deal with a long distant relationship and survive through it for 3 years before we finally decided to get married. What happened when she was away was something I didn’t expect. She attended meetings and have been good friends with JWs, although she is not yet baptised. At first I never knew what JWs really do and their doctrines were so I thought and felt nothing bad about it. Everything changed when I started to attend some of the meetings, as a husband would support his wife. I was really surprised of what they teach from the bible and the differences it interpret to orthodox christian teachings. That’s when I started to research about them and found out about their cult-like practices and ways. The problem here is, I think my wife is already really into this. She was already introduced as an “Unbaptised publisher” and she is planning to get baptised soon. I have no problem with the people in the congregation because they were so nice to me and my wife. But I think If I just let this be, I’m afraid I’m risking what my wife and I have. And I’m afraid of the changes and damage it can do to our relationship. It would be really helpful if someone can give advise. Thank you so much.

  205. Jesse, my two cents. There’s a lot unspoken here, but it appears she wants to be a JW and you do not based on your post. However, she is your wife and as you state your role as a husband is to support her as best you can.

    You mention being afraid of some things. Why not communicate your fears to her and see how she feels? Perhaps you can reach some agreement or come to an understanding together . The beliefs and lifestyle of a JW will cause some division in a household, but I’ve known many marriages between believers and non-believers that have lasted many, many years. What has helped has been open communication, trust, commitment, and patience – as with any good relationship.

    Think of your 3 years of long-distant relationship. What did it take on both sides to make that work? The qualities it took to make that work can be applied to your circumstances now. Only now the “long distant relationship” is in how you both choose to worship. Hope things go well and God bless. You’re in a tough spot right now.

  206. Ingrid

    I wonder what they are telling people. One of my family members who is also a JW said that the organization would be telling them what to do this year. I haven’t heard anything else. I wonder if they will be packing their bags like they did back in the day!

  207. Liam

    Hey recently I found this blog site which I have found very interesting the view points expressed.

    I have a deep and serious question, without the intervention of bigoted/anti-gay opinions.

    I was going out with a guy (I am a guy myself) for a few months. Our relationship was monogamous and limitless. Recently he got a talking to by the church and his family notified for liking what was deemed to be an “inappropriate” page on a social media page. His family found out and he either got given the choice of me (a homosexual life) or religion and family. He chose religion and family.

    The last time I saw his he was confused and sad and said he can longer act on his homosexual impulses.

    I understand that JW is based on the interpretation of old scriptures. How can I open his mind to getting his own opinion and make his own decision.

    Is homosexuality really that bad if it is in a loving relationship that is monogamous? A man lying with a man is deemed an abomination but so are many other things that are not deemed relevant in today’s world. Correct me if I am wrong, the bible does not speak of same-sex relations. What is everyone’s view on homosexuality? Can it be deemed possible for life after this? I admit I wasn’t brought up religious, nor am I. I was raised with morals and always respect everyone regardless of who they are and always put other people’s needs before mine.

    He believes that Armageddon is near (international JW conventions are happening next week). To me it is just another hoax like the previous failed predictions.

    Is there a way I don’t have to lose him and help him see a broader perspective?

  208. Relationships with JW’s when you’re NOT one is a rough way to go. Add in the homosexual angle and it really makes it tough from so many different perspectives.

    Regarding homosexuality: It isn’t for me to judge. The Bible DOES speak of this however. I’m quoting specifically from the New Testament so that you and everyone else can clearly see that this isn’t just a Jewish perspective. I disagree with a lot of people who wish to foist Old Testament laws on New Testament Christians. Jehovah’s Witnesses are the world’s worst about it as when they find that they can’t justify their antiquated views with New Testament scripture they will immediately “punt” the ball back several thousand years and say that it was a “Biblical principle” found in the Old Testament.

    If that is the case, then we have a whole host of issues including dietary. If you’re going to force Old Testament Judaic laws on me then you have to force ALL of them and to my knowledge there aren’t ANY religions out there keeping all of the OT laws including the Jews. From sacrifices on altars to the festivals to circumcision to their views and treatment of women it becomes clear to anyone who bothers to look that Old Testament laws are simply not applicable to modern day Christians. However, my personal “rule” if you will, is that if I find it in the New Testament then, and only then should I give a specific view or “rule” credence. I then look at the context. For example Paul said to “let your women be silent in church.” Not only does NOBODY enforce this rule but I question the CAPABILITY of anyone to enforce it. (That was my attempt at humor Liam.)

    I believe that a “sin is a sin is a sin” and that all sin is equally bad in God’s eyes. Qualifying sin and telling someone that their particular favorite sin is worse than mine is simply hypocritical. “All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.” That’s why I’m so happy that it isn’t my job to judge anyone else. My job is to work on myself and not other people.

    Romans 1:24-32

    24 Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves, 25 because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen.

    26 For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; 27 and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.

    28 And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done. 29 They were filled with all manner of unrighteousness, evil, covetousness, malice. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, maliciousness. They are gossips, 30 slanderers, haters of God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, 31 foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless. 32 Though they know God’s righteous decree that those who practice such things deserve to die, they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them.

    Understand that a Jehovah’s Witness’ first duty is to their faith. Everything else, including their family and even their young children, is secondary. Regardless of how “limitless” your relationship with this guy was or is, you are now a constant reminder to him that he “failed” Jehovah.

    If I were in your shoes, I’d find someone else to have a relationship with.

    Doug

  209. @Liam,

    Well I am glad that you found this website. It is true, I do not agree with the Jehovah’s Witness because they change the Bible in important doctrinal points to justify things that they do. Even though that’s true, the Bible does speak about homosexuality and it is against it. The verse given to you in the comment above is a very good one, but there are many more that talk about these things.

    I don’t know about any sin in the Bible that it used to be a sin but no longer is. It might be true that society might do a game changer all of the sudden and see something that is normally bad as good, but that doesn’t mean that it is right in the eyes of God. The only thing that is different now from what it was in the past is that Christians are no longer bound to the Law, because Jesus came to fulfill it. That means that they do not have to offer sacrifices at the altar, but the things that were sinful then are sinful today.

  210. First time poster here but have been a long time JW of 20 yrs. Got out in 2002 when I saw all the bs and lies used to cover up their failing false prophecies. Since then I have never been happier although for the first 3 years it was very depressing to lose all your long time friends. I haven’t kept up with all the happenings with the WT society so very surprised to learn that they have sold all their buildings in Brooklyn. My 1st guess for doing this would be that they are seeing their finances and donations dropping off and they need to conserve cash to keep the lights on with their other operations. I also read that they have also reduced or sold off other assets around the world to cut and consolidate costs.

    Perhaps now we are finally seeing the end of the WT as we know it. The WT has always been about money and when the money dries up … the end comes for the WT. I think it was Russell who said if the money ( donations ) dried up it would be a sign that God is now ending the WT and the preaching work. Well at least the end of the WT. I feel sorry for all those pioneeers, CO, DO who thought they could retire confortably within Bethel and have all their needs looked after. As I understand it, many of those former Bethelites have now been downsized and told to rely on Jehovah to look after their needs. Many of them don’t have pensions or any sizable savings to fall back on and have to rely on charity of family or the congregation to get by. They’re learning the hard lesson what blind obedience to an organization is costing them now.

    I was an elder when I resigned and left and in my exit talk with the other elders I told them that when 2014 came and went without Armageddon coming they would have absolute proof that the WT had been lying to them. Of course, one elder smugly said to me that perhaps I wouldn’t be around when the New System was established. I guess I will be the one to have the last laugh. My next prediction is that by the time 2020 comes around the WT will have to become more mainstream to survive ( repeal of Blood doctrine and disfellowshipping etc. ) or it will fracture into other sects just as other cults have done like Armstrong’s Plain Truth.

  211. Anonymous

    Great post belcha11 !!!…. I would write your former elders and rub their noses in it…contact that elder and give him the 44 pages of false prophesies that I gave Doug…. it has a way of shutting people up.

  212. Unfortunately, I don’t know where all the former elders have ended up. I’ve heard that many of them moved or had been reassigned to different congregations after I left. Apparently my leaving had caused so much controversy in my old congregation that the CO had to eventually disband the congregation! I did not just step down and faded like many do, I actively challenged many of the elders about things that had been bothering me for years. When the WT came out with the “new generation” doctrine in 1995 that was the straw that led me onto the internet. It took 5 more years but eventually began to see the light.

  213. chuck acker

    i like to say my bit,..i was in satans’s organization, for a few years, i left of my own choosing in 1970,
    the longer ive been out the more clear it is that wtbs, is a lie, i havent seen any1 here mention something
    regarding how they are always coming up with “new light” its very simple,..2 Corinthians 11:14 ,
    And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
    that sums it up

  214. I think 2 Cor 11:13 adds so much to it:

    “For such men are false apostles, deceitful workers, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ.”

    Doug

  215. Michael Dosie

    I wonder how the Witnesses answer the dilemma found in Revelation 19:1, where there was a “great crowd IN heaven…” I was always taught, the “great crowd” was left on earth, and the 144,000 were the only ones IN heaven. Furthermore, only the great crowd is literally spoken of in the Scriptures as being “IN heaven,” whereas NEVER is the “little crowd” EVER spoken of as ending up there—unless you severely twist the Scriptures.

    Funny thing too how the partakers at the Memorial Service have steadily INCREASED in number. How can there be 135,475 in heaven, in 2005, with 8,525 remaining partakers, and then in 2013, there were only 130,800 in heaven and 13,200 remaining partakers. What happened to the missing 4,675? Was there a secret resurrection that brought these back to earth? The WT has always touted the Anointed Remnant is declining in number with each year. It seems 4,675 were disgruntled with heaven, and would rather live on earth, and thus, they returned. This would be funny, if it were not so serious in destroying so many lives.

    And OF COURSE the Cross is pagan!!! What else do you expect “pagans” to use in their executions??? Here in America, we are executed by lethal injection or the gas chamber only. However, if you committed a crime in the Middle East, they are not going to use our American method of execution, They are going to use THEIR OWN METHOD—hanging or firing squad. Should this American and his family disavow he hung or was killed by a firing squad just because that is how those “pagan’s” do it, over there? How ridiculous every WT argument is—especially when they try and inculcate the use of the Bible to do so—much less history or FACTS.

    The “faithful and discreet slave” are the only ones who are supposed to be feeding the sheep. One time I asked a friend of mine—who was of the “anointed”—how he went about feeding the sheep. He said by HOW he answered questions at the WT study—the certain way he answered. So I paid particular attention whenever he answered (once per study at most). I never found his answers to be any more special than anyone else of the “other sheep.” What a farce. So glad to be out, serving Jesus, since 1980.

    Michael Dosie

  216. Excellent remarks and 100% on the money Michael!

    Thank you for weighing in and for your very clear and logical arguments against the Watchtower’s teachings.

    Doug

  217. Simon

    ..and all the while the tsunami of paedophile law suits is starting to swamp the wts and they are learning they can lose cases at law and be $eriously $tung by the damages.

    The day the UN or who/what ever move on bethel they will flee to their roof tops and scream “Persecution!”

    If, as the wts says most frequently in one form or another the “end is nigh” then explain why the 180 degree turn about in funding.
    ‘No collection’ is now the ‘new funding arrangement’. Calling for money is the norm at conventions.
    Pushing old folks to leave their estates to the wts.
    Why are they selling up the KH in many parts of the world
    Why are they siphoning spare funds from individual congs back to Bethel NY
    Why are they closing branch offices .
    Why are they centralizing the affairs back to NY
    Why have they built (free labour) the new estate in NY state away from Bethel.

    Doctrinal changes back and then forward then back again.
    Claiming to be a charitable organization… really? Show us where please.

  218. I remember “Clara” the “Hey! Where’s the beef.” lady on the Wendy’s commercials.

    Hey! Where’s The Beef?

    Funny and sad all at the same time!

    Doug

  219. Grace a. Beals

    Tore my heart out finally admitting to myself “I’m through with snake oil lies, but where is the truth?”

  220. Garrett

    I keep looking for truth in the bottom of a beer glass. Ain’t found it yet but it sure is great searching.

    Witnesses always say where would I go?
    “Go back to bed” I say… It’s winderful sleeping in on the weekends!

  221. Read the New Testament with “new eyes” as if you’re reading a novel.

    Ask questions. Take notes.

    Read more. Ask more questions. Take more notes.

    Trust your own judgment.

    Stop looking for someone to tell you what truth is and start asking the same question of yourself.

    That’s the best advice I can give you.

    I feel your pain and sadness.

    Doug

  222. Ingrid

    The truth is in the Bible, not the one forged by the JWs. The truth is Jesus! He is the only way. Get a real BIble and read it that’s where the truth is in!

  223. Grace a. Beals

    THX yes I do study now new bible.

  224. Laura Manzano

    Where is the “like” button!!!!!

  225. Thanks Laura!

    Merry Christmas!

    Doug

  226. David Carlton

    Got out twenty years ago. Spent my youth failing to live up to the society’s expectations. I believe the Internet was their death nell. Thanks for your thoughts. David Richard Carlton in Ohio.

  227. It’s my pleasure David!

    Merry Christmas!

    Doug

  228. Nelly

    Dear Doug:
    This is the first Christmas in a long time (over 25 years) that I have been truly happy. I learned about your site a while back and started my own research and found a lot of inconsistencies with the JW and the teachings. I am a baptized witness however I didn’t enjoy many moments with my mother because of the restrictions I was imposed on by the witnesses.

    This year I actually went to one of my family member’s 90th birthday and she was so very happy, I saw family I hadn’t seen in years and felt so loved (by my family my blood and my people). I decided that I was going to spend Christmas and new years with them. I actually went to a “Christmas concert” which I would have never gone in the past and I was so very happy, I felt I was in love with my husband again, we had fun we danced all night and I even asked him “why is this wrong”? they only played 1 Christmas son “feliz navidad” and that was it, we were so very happy. The restrictions imposed on by the society didn’t let me enjoy myself, if they JW were to find out I went to a concert called “Christmas concert” they would probably sensor me or something.

    I know my relationship with God and I love him and I respect him and I honor my husband and work hard to be a good parent, I do my hard work at my place of employment so what’s wrong with being happy?

    I thank you for taking the veil out of my face and allowing me to be happy and enjoy life in a way I haven’t done so in many years.

    May God continue blessing you and allowing you to help many in my situation.

  229. I’m so very happy for you Nelly!

    However, it wasn’t me who took the veil off your face. That was you and God working together. I just showed you a glimpse of what life would be like without it.

    Merry Christmas Nelly!

    Doug

  230. Shawn

    I fully trusted JW after reading the books Life—How Did It Get Here? By Evolution or by Creation and You Can Live Forever in Paradise on earth… But then i wondered at page 154, so that i started to Google and found your site…. but to tell u the truth these books actually increased my faith in God but what they said about 1914 confused me i am still 17 years old and don’t know what to do, however i will ask my dad about it coz he was the one who gave me the book..

  231. Hey Shawn! I am so glad you came here, because I actually grew up knowing about the JWs. And believing, because they said so, that they actually had the truth. And of course, every single lie has truth to it, so it takes digging to realize, especially when you don’t have a background of Bible study, like I did.
    Shawn, be sure to know that what matters is the Bible. The JWs give importance to studying their books, and through them interpreting the Bible. That means that, even thought they don’t say it, they believe that their books are more important than the Bible, and they really tell you what the Bible says. The Bible is the Word of God, and no book can interpret it. The Bible only interprets itself.

    Be sure that they also don’t have authors in their books, which they claim that it’s because it gives glory to God, but in reality is so that they aren’t held responsible. The souls of people are a major responsibility in the eyes of God! Meaning that, all the people the JWs have misled and aren’t going to enter Paradise on Earth will be lost because of them, and the JWs will pay for such acts.

    The JWs claim that they don’t believe in the Trinity, because the word Trinity isn’t in the Bible, yet they believe in 1914, yet there’s no evidence of 1914 in the Bible. Also, if you dig into the JWs files, you will see that their teachings have changed every so many years to cover up their lies. Yet the Bible doesn’t change. If you look at the beliefs of Christianity, they don’t change, because the Bible doesn’t change. Although the word Trinity doesn’t appear in the Bible, it’s a word that humans use to REFER to the triune nature of God: Jehovah, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit.The word Trinity isn’t there, but the evidence for the triune nature of God is clearly all over the Bible.

    A good book for you to read that gives you deep details of what goes on behind doors with the JWs is Raymond Franz’ Crisis of Conscience, who was a JWs witness that discovered the truth about who the JWs were and what they do.

    I went through that journey of going from trusting the JWs to becoming a Christian, and it was hard. It was difficult to see the evidence, but look at John 1:1. In the JW bible, it says that the Word (meaning, Jesus) was a god. How can that be possible? Jesus is either God or He isn’t, but He cannot be ‘a god.’ From a grammatical point of view, ‘a ‘ is indefinite, meaning that it opens the door for the possibility of multiple gods. Jehovah claims to be the only God, no other before Him. Christians are monotheists, therefore there cannot be another god that is also real. If that’s true, then we no longer are monotheists, but polytheists. Also, god written like that means that He belonged to the group of other ‘gods’ the ones that are fake. If you look at the entire Bible, only when God refers to fake gods, does the word god is written in small caps. That means that Jesus is not “a god,” He is God! He is part of the Godhead, of a triune God.

    Go to John 20:24-29, see how the disciple Paul calls Jesus “God” and “Lord.” The JWs say that Paul was confused and only called Him so because it was the case in the times. This is a terrible explanation, because:

    1) Paul was a follower of Jesus. He was a long-time disciple, never before did he call Jesus “God,” at least not that it’s recorded, so I can’t make the assumption that he did call him God before.
    2) In this context, he calls Jesus “God” when he believes that Jesus is who He claims to be: The Son of Man (reference to Daniel 7:13-14). The Son of Man is God that will come in the clouds and will be given glory and dominion, and He will be served. Jesus DID claim to be God, when over and over again He proclaims to be the Son of Man.
    3) Paul meant to adore and glorify Jesus. Jesus also accepted the praise. If Jesus wouldn’t have been “Lord” and “God,” then He would have corrected Paul, but that wasn’t the case. Jesus accepted the praise.
    4) If Jesus wasn’t God, the mere fact that He accepted to be called God is taking God’s place (which was the cause of the fall of Adam and Eve… they wanted to be like God). If that was the case, then Jesus wasn’t perfect.
    5) Jesus was perfect, and He paid for our sins, so HE IS GOD! He claimed to be God, and He accepted glorification and praise from His disciples as if He was God. Also, the angels glorify Him, and worship Him.

    You can clearly see the difference when you got to Revelation. There are several instance, but for one example you can go to Revelation 22: 8-9. Here John (the disciple) tries to worship the angel that gives Him the good news of what’s to come. The angel quickly says “DON’T DO THAT! [emphasis added] I am a fellow slave with you, your brothers the prophets, and those who keep the words of this book. Worship God.” See how Jesus accepts worship and the angel doesn’t? It’s because Jesus is God, but the angel isn’t.

    Also know that the Lord is not a God of confusion. Yes, sometimes we might not fully understand something in particular, but He is NOT a God of confusion. When I was with the JWs, I couldn’t accept what they were telling me just because, I started looking in the Bible (like it well says) to prove that what they were saying was the truth, and I found the opposite! That’s when I started to see God for who He was, and my confusion started to go away.

    Hope this helps. If you need to talk more, please don’t hesitate to write another message and I’ll try to respond!

  232. Excellent response!

    Thanks for helping out FootMuz!

    Doug

  233. Also! By Paul, I actually meant Thomas… who is known today as Thomas the doubter. Because he doubted Jesus really was who He claimed to be until the day he called Him “My Lord and my God”

  234. Yes and when Thomas uttered those words in the Greek (look them up in the Kingdom Interlinear) the actual translation was: “The Lord of me and the God of me.”

    Doug

  235. Jodie

    Their long history of false prophecies should be enough to convince anyone they should not be a part of this organization. Our Heavenly Father advised the Israelites that if someone prophesied in his name and that prophecy did not come true not to keep listening to those false prophets because he (God) did not send them.. That is good advised even for today. Listen to God. Take his advise. One should also not be a part of this organization because of the way they dishonor Jesus, our Lord and Savior. They teach that Jesus is not worthy of worship. The Bible says we are to honor the Son the same way we honor the Father. Is that not worship? Even if one did not understand the Trinity, one should understand the pure scripture that tells of Jesus being worshipped and accepting that worship as his due. In reference to the end, Jesus said that no one knew the day or the hour not even The Son. For over 127 years the Watchtower has been predicting the end. Either they think they are smarter than Jesus or they are trying to make Jesus out to be a liar. In either case it is not a very good way to honor one’s Lord and Savior. It also shows how lacking in love this organization is. If those running this organization truly loved the membership they would not go beyond what is written in scripture. Their predictions cannot be considered mere speculations. Persons who did not believe these speculations were disfellowshipped.

    I think if this organization truly loved God and the members they have set themselves up to pastor, they would have had the same crisis of conscience that Ray Franz had when he discovered there was not a lick of evidence that Jerusalem was destroyed in 605 BC. Instead they disfellowshipped Ray. They disfellowsipped another Brother (can’t remember his name) who wrote a book, “The Gentile Times Revisited” that explained why 605 was wrong. There were many disfellowshipped after the 1975 failed prophecy. I believe that if the Apostle Paul himself had preached night and day in front of the Governing Body in an effort to get them to stop making up false predictions they would have disfellowshipped him too. They teach you need to keep on believing on their teachings even if you do not believe they are true. You need to “wait upon Jehovah” until that time that Jehovah reveals to them their error. That in itself sounds like a teaching of Satan. Did any of the apostles have such a teaching? Of course not!

  236. 1975 Survivor

    Exactly! The sad fact is these people are so stubbornly brainwashed, they couldn’t accept any Bible except their own. I had several experiences of showing the blatant evidences of Jesus being God and yet they would explain away with their own Bible why Jesus wasn’t Almighty God. I even showed the Watchtower’s flip-flop stances on worshipping Jesus. If Charles Tate Russel was alive today, he would be disfellowshipped immediately!! Truly shocking!!!

  237. Anonymous

    Hi everyone
    I have contributed to this blog on many subjects, but something is really bugging me. I studied with the Watchout, sorry, Watchtower, organisation for several years, and even planned to get blinded, sorry, I meant baptised, but now my eyes are open wide, I am convinced that someone or some people know more about the money making scam in this organisation
    The individual witnesses, publishers and elders of, I would think, most congregations, may have doubts, but they themselves do not benefit from the conservative estimate of $7 million dollars a month the organisation is raking in from donations ($1 per jw donnated each month)
    Someone, some people, or other secret organisation, possibly within the WTBTS, is benefitting financially from all the money coming in. I read an earlier post that the GB live lavish lifestyles, but I find it very difficult to believe that GB witnesses, or those just under them in the hierarchy, who do have doubts, have not gone public in telling the world of this scam. People do contribute to this blog and many others have internet sites, but no one, from high up in the organisation in recent times, (I know about Franz and his book Crisis of Conscience), but no one from within from up high has come out and gone public, about the money.
    is there an organisation within the WTBTS keeping quiet about the money. They have some of of the most powerful legal advisers in the world, an organisation as powerful as this can be very intimidating to people. I just find it very difficult to accept that only the few old men of the GB, are in on the scam.
    Does anyone else have any similar thoughts?
    Alena

  238. Alena

    Alena,
    Apologies to all, I didn’t mean my comment to come up as annonymous

  239. Footmuz

    Hi! It’s good to hear all of these things from people that were deeper involved with the JWs than I was. There is a group of them that is rich. The mere members don’t get anything… They blindly go serve their gods (the WT and the GB) and don’t even get retribution. I have an aunt that’s Jw and it is so sad.
    Maybe they teach them to be obsessed with money, because she certainly is.

  240. The Watchtower has vast resources at their disposal. I think, though, that the money is just a tool that they have continued to use. Lavish lifestyle? If having a personal housekeeper, getting every need met, staffing a personal driver, flying first class everywhere you go, and being treated like gods when you get there is considered lavish then yes they have a very lavish lifestyle.

    Doug

  241. Leslie Gray

    All big religious organizations such as the Vatican in Rome, Church of Latter Day Saints, Sciencetology and the WTBTS keep their books closed and secretive. Those trusted with detailed knowledge of the true financial operations know to keep quiet about the books and the money. The detailed forms and methods of intimidation and coercion the WTBTS would utilize to keep their trusted member quiet about the financial operation of the WTBTS is anybody’s guess.

    There is always the outside possibility that someday one of them will break rank and come clean about the financial operation of the WTBTS. There is also no doubt that the financial operators of the WTBTS have various factions of WTBTS financial operations compartmentalize and it would take a skilled forensic accountant considerable time to unravel the entire financial operation of the WTBTS. But I would not count too heavily on a trusted member breaking the ranks and coming clean about the financial operation of the WTBTS. Why? Because any one that high up in WTBTS hierarchy would have a vested financial interest in maintaining the status quo as well as avoiding the intimidation, consequences and the wrath the WTBTS would bring upon them.

    I’ve learned from past WTBTS history that the WTBTS is just like any big corporation. It just happens to be a religious organizations .The WTBTS will do whatever is necessary to maintain their power and control. Remember how Judge Rutherford seized control of the leadership of the then International Bible Students organization. Rutherford used legalese to seize control of the organization and kicked out opposing board members and effectively silenced opposition within the ranks. Raymond Franz detailed in his book “ Crisis of Conscience” the steps the WTBTS used against him to keep him quiet. The WTBTS will disfellowship and ostracize anyone today who challenges their power and control. WTBTS hierarchy members have witnessed, knows and understands how an opposing board member as well as rank and file opposition is dealt with. Opposition members are publicly discredited, reputation smeared, kicked out of the congregation and ostracized by their friends and family and dispatched from the organization swiftly and surgically.

    Any trusted member of the WTBTS hierarchy who might even think about breaking rank to come clean about the financial operation of the WTBTS understands firsthand the intimidation, consequences and wrath the WTBTS would bring upon anyone who would dare come clean about the true financial operations of the WTBTS. So I would not count on anyone breaking the ranks and coming clean about the financial operation of the WTBTS any time soon.

  242. Shawn

    Thank you footmuz, u cleared my doubts thanks a lot, and yeah about their prophecy’s i cant believe they have been changing them since 1799(via jwfacts) theyare so fake. Another thing they say there are no spirit or ghosts what about that am i suppose to believe that?

  243. Alena

    Alena
    I remember, from the Live Forever in Paradise Book, and a feature in a watchtower magaine, that people should not play the boardgame Dungeons and Dragons as this works as a conduit for spirits, which Satan sends out to visit upon us. I was even warned about buying goods from a second hand store, as the sister said that the power of satan caused demons to attach themselves to objects once owned by people who are of “this system of things” which satan uses their belongings to spread demons out to the unsuspecting buyer. Guess what ? I believed it !!

    Now I can see what the society was actually doing, second hand stores provide opportunity for many people to get “worldly” possessions at very reduced cost, therefore by installing fear of demonic influences, I know I, as a jw student, refrained from buying from such shops, so I would be less influenced by “worldly” thoughts, just another small, but very effective tactic used by the society to inculcate fear, creating a mindset of dependence towards the WTBTS.
    Now that I am able to use critical thinking, this really doesn’t make sense, by applying their “logic”, why aren’t all goods bought from shops affected by demons since most manufacturing is done by “worldy” people who are influenced by satan!!

    How I look back at myself, I realise now, just how easy it is to influence and brainwash people.
    I really hope that with the influence of the internet, more people will see how this “religion”, damages and restricts higher thought and analysis, skills which God created for us to use.

  244. Alena

    Alena
    Hi please check out “Tony Morris rants out against higher education, saying it will lead to spiritual disaster”

    I know we’ve discussed the higher education stuff before from previous decades, but it’s the 21st century, 2015, wake up people. They ARE DESPERATE, that’s how they are responding to the failed prediction of 1914-2014

  245. Garrett

    It shows their incredible hypocracy. The circuit overseer told my mother last year that Brooklyn sent off 5 of its best to got to school to become lawyers for the Watchtower. Another case of “Do as I say, not as I do”.

    Yes, I guess they need that higher education to fight all the child abuse cases that are now coming across their plate.

    Didn’t the scriptures say “Do not prepare…for in that hour it will be given you”? If they follow the scriptures as they claim, then why are they “preparing” when called before the courts by going to law school?

    Can’t wait till this religion falls… Um…sorry… cult.

  246. I’ll just relate what a circuit overseer told my sister when she was contemplating stopping pioneering to go back to school:

    “You aren’t trusting in Jehovah! You’re putting your trust in this wicked system of things and you are going to go to their schools to learn how to earn a living in their system!”

    What a bunch of hypocrites!

    Doug

  247. Alena

    Alena

    I watched the video of this on jw.org, and yes Tony Morris says all the things in the article and much more, but then in the same breath, they admit exactly what Garrett writes, one of the jw’s who the organisation sent to law school is interviewed,
    I feel so sad that in this day, where young people face so many difficulties due to the global debt problem, here we have a worldwide organisation trying to break aspiration and improve their life chances.

    Shame on them, Pharisees

  248. Dave carlton

    Like it.

  249. Anonymous

    If you truly were a witness for all those years then you would know they weren’t talking about people born in and alive during 1914 that the bible is referring to “flock” of anointed ones.. I’m not even a witness and I knew that lol I feel so sad for you..

  250. Mike

    Your statement is incorrect, Anonymous – the Watchtower did maintain, for many decades, that “The End” would come before those “born in and alive during 1914” would all die off. The Watch Tower Society has emphasized time and time again (up until the 1990s) that those elderly Anointed who were alive in 1914 would still be alive when The End of this System would come. Doug was making the point that because 100 years have passed since 1914, it thus must be concluded that the Watch Tower’s declaration was false. Doug made a very clear and simple argument that the Watch Tower’s “prophecy” has not passed the test of time.
    As for your statement that you “Lol, feel sorry for Doug”… let’s be honest here. You were not feeling at all sorry for Doug. You were simply adopting the ignorant person’s tactic of laughing derisively at a person rather than proffering an intelligent counter-argument. You may wish to remedy your ignorance by doing some reading up on this subject. The Witnesses have radically changed their definition of the Generation that would be alive when Armageddon hits. You would do yourself a great service by educating yourself on this topic. I’m certain that it would make you a little more humble, and a little less foolish.

  251. Idiot.

    The following illustration was in the key Watchtower recruitment publication during the 50’s, 60’s and 70’s:

    “The Truth That Leads To Eternal Life” or as we all referred to it: “The Truth Book”.

    Graphic From The

    “He shows the beginning of this time and how the troubles increase, and mentions some of the sorrows to fall on the world, during the time of trouble. The length of time is indicated by him when he said, “Truly I say to you that this generation will by no means pass away until all these things occur.” (Matt. 24:34) The actual meaning of these words is, beyond question, that which takes a “generation” in the ordinary sense, as at Mark 8:12 and Acts 13:36, or for those who are living at the given period. So it was on “this generation” that the accumulated judgments were to fall. (Matt. 23:36) This therefore means that from 1914 a generation shall not pass till all is fulfilled, and amidst a great time of trouble.” Watchtower 1951 Jul 1 p.404

    And of course, the much more recent:

    Watchtower Generation

    The Watchtower never made the distinction that it was their anointed group that was to “not pass away” but rather the generation of people living during that time. We were all taught that you had to be at the age of personal accountability in order to “see” all the things occurring in 1914. The magic number was said to be twelve, the age of consent according to to the Jewish culture. If you were twelve in 1914 then you would be 112 to 113 years of age now.

    Obviously you are either an idiot, ignorant, or (much more likely) simply some JW troll posing as a disinterested (but interested nonetheless) bystander.

    Here’s a sage bit of advice: “It’s better to be silent and thought a fool than to open your big mouth and remove all doubt.”

    Doug

  252. Micah

    Yes i remember quite well the 1984 serious of watchtowers there were 4 i think as it states the Generation that will not pass away well they have haven’t they? I remembered this so clearly cause it was my year of baptism, even at that point i had questions to ask about things that i didn’t quite agree with such as the selling of magazines the bible clearly stated that we were not peddlers of the good news so i refused to ask for money back then it was at the bargain price of 50c for 2 also i had an issue with how all the animals spread across the globe after the flood i’d always thought the witnesses had all the answers but no one could answer that one. The other really big issue i had and it bothered me all the time i was in the truth was regarding the “Love of the Brothers” i was subject to alot of unloving behavior people talk about love bombing well i never received any and always thought it was “Satans way of persecuting me” more to follow…….

  253. You weren’t SELLING the magazines you were merely PLACING the magazines.

    It’s not LOVE it’s AGAPE.

    We weren’t CHRISTIANS we were JEHOVAH’S WITNESSES.

    We’re not PROPHETS…we’re merely Jehovah’s REPRESENTATIVES.

    This book isn’t the BIBLE. It’s BETTER than the BIBLE because it has our explanation of scriptures and pictures in it.

    OUR BIBLE is better than YOUR BIBLE because it is in plain English.

    We’re not here to CONVERT YOU. We’re just here to DISCUSS THE BIBLE WITH YOU.

    I’m not a RECRUITER I’m a PUBLISHER.

    Doug

  254. Alena

    Alena
    Incredible how the Watchtower society can censor their own history, not only from their own publications, but from the minds of people, or even invent past lies. I remember in 1987, I was having a bible study meeting with two jw sisters. I was going through a dreadful period of severe depression, the sisters told me to have faith in Jehovah, I remember they said that my son would be under 25 when armageddon comes, they told me to imagine a world of kindness, compassion and perfection. They said that armageddon would come before those born in 1914 died.

    My son will be 30 this year, no sign of armageddon..

    Guess what, my world is full of compassion, kindness and love. I have the love of Christ, my beautiful son, and a wonderful husband, but most of all I have peace of mind.

    The watchtower society lies to its own people.

    The “New Light” of 2013 that the watchtower society espouses, states that the governing body is now the faithful and discreet slave, then what about the witnesses who just a few months earlier partook of the wine and unleavened bread – they were the ones who presumably got the calling directly from Jehovah that they were a member of the annointed 144,000. Now that the governing body is the annointed class, did the governing body, send on Jehovah’s apology to the original surviving members ?

    I was told that of those 144,000 who originally made up the faithful and discreet slave, when they died, they entered the kingdom of heaven “in the twinkling of an eye”. What does the watchtower society say happened to those that died. Do they now say that oh yes, we believed they went up to sit with Jehovah, but now actually, since the New Light, Jehovah sent them back down to wait for ressurection ? How do they explain this ? Or do they say, well actually, it appears they never did go up to heaven ?

    The way this false religion infects the minds of its followers is truly astounding.

  255. Here’s something you may find interesting. Charles Taze Russell told his followers that HE was the “faithful and discreet slave” and nobody else. As a matter of fact, the “great crowd” was an invention of the Watchtower leaders when the ranks of the JW’s swelled past 144,000. They had to invent a second class of Jehovah’s Witness so that they could come along for the ride. Another invention was the “faithful and discreet slave CLASS” after the death of Russell. Obviously he wasn’t “it”.

    Many of those Jehovah’s Witnesses who professed to be anointed (all of them did prior to the invention of the “great crowd class”) were rebuked for partaking of the emblems and even threatened with expulsion in an attempt to keep the number below 144,000. This mistreatment of those who thought they were anointed and began partaking of the emblems, continued into the 70’s and 80’s and I was a first hand witness to this.

    The unmitigated gall that C.T. Russell had to have in order to present himself in the same category as Paul and John is absolutely astounding.

    Page 65 The Finished Mystery by C.T. Russell:

    Seven Messengers

    Truth is stranger than fiction.

    Doug

  256. Note the supposed meaning of Leviathan as laid out in the Finished Mystery. Also note that even at this early point in their history, the leaders of the Watchtower society presume to correct the scriptures when it pleases them. I also think that it is instructive that C.T. Russell used the Leviathan as a primary means to travel from place to place on his speaking engagements.

    C.T. Russell Getting On A Train

    The Finished Mystery

    The following is a corrected translation of Job 40:15 to 41:34, with comments thereon from the pen of one of Pastor Russell’s followers: “Behold now one with great heat [the stationary steam engine], which I have made to be with thee; he will consume fodder [peat, wood, coal] as do cattle. Behold now his strength is in his loins [boiler plates], and his power is within the parts bent in a circle [boiler shell] of his belly. His tail [smoke stack—opposite the feeding end] will set upright like a cedar; the couplings of his leaping parts [connecting rods, pitmans] will be clamped together. His bones are tubes of copper; his solid bones [grate bars] are as hammered-out bars of iron. He is the greatest of the ways of power. He that made him [the Lord] can make His sword [Word] to approach unto [reveal] him. [Isa. 27:1, 2.] He shall rest under thin shelter [steam jackets] within a covering of fibrous reeds [jute] and clay [mortar]. The willows of the valley [the trees overhead] will enclose him around about Behold [as a pumping engine] he will drink up an overflowing river without much exertion; he will cause the people to trust [that their cellars will keep dry], though a Jordan should rush forth over its border. He will gather it up in his fountains by means of traps and with a perforated nozzle.

    [pg 085]
    “Thou wilt lengthen out leviathan [the locomotive] with a hook [automatic coupler] or with a snare [coupling-pin] which thou wilt cause his tongue [coupling-link] to drop down. Wilt thou not place a ring [piston] in his nostrils [cylinders] or pierce through his cheeks [piston-ends] with a staff [piston-rod]? Will he make repeated supplication unto thee [to get off the track]? Or will he utter soft tones unto thee [when he screeches with the whistle]? Will he make a covenant with thee, that thou mayest take him for a servant forever [without repairs]? Wilt thou play with him as with a bird [make him whistle at will]? Or wilt thou bind [enslave] him for thy maidens [so that you can take them to a picnic or convention]? Companies [of stockholders] will feast upon him [his earnings]; they will share him among speculators. [Psa. 74:14.] Thou wilt fill his skin with pointed irons [bolts], and his head with a cabin of fishermen [a cab similar to the cabins on fishing vessels]. Place thy hand upon him, be mindful of the conflict [raging within the boiler] and thou wilt add no further questions. Behold, his confidence [boiler] being deceived [not properly supplied with water], shall not at once his mighty form be spread asunder [by an explosion]? There is none so bold that he will stir him up [to run at his very highest possible speed],

    This is absolutely hysterical and one has to ask: Where is their “divine inspiration” really coming from? The answer? The insane ramblings of a doddering old millionaire and his followers.

    Doug

  257. Alena

    Alena
    What a crock of rubbish

    In the beginning was a business plan, and the business plan begat lies, (and an early instruction manual on how to service and drive a train).

    Divine inspiration ? There is more inspiration in a plate of haddock and chips than there is coming from a few old men in the gb.. Of course they will say I am under influence from satan, well maybe it’s also because I am wearing tight jogging pants and my brain has got confused, after all, the jogging pants have started to turn my poor female brain into becoming homosexual so my thoughts have got confused.

    Any of this make sense, no ? Hello ……!!!!

  258. You’re obviously “under the influence” Alena! And I love it!

    Doug

  259. Alena

    A large gin and tonic, Mmmmmm!!!!! Then another one ,

  260. Jan

    Hi, I checked into this conversation because I wanted to see if the JWs had modified the teaching that they put forth in 1995 that “this generation” referred to in Matthew 24.14 (I think that’s the correct Scripture, but I’m no longer a JW and I don’t have a Bible right in front of me at the moment so I may be wrong about that) NOW meant, in NEW LIGHT terms, that the Faithful and Discreet Slave, some of whom were members on the Governing Body back then, were part of a GENERATION that would not pass before all the things Christ talked about happening in Matthew 24:14 etc. would come to pass. While a second article attempted to introduce some fluidity into the concept of just what the heck “this generation” meant (thus the nonsense about overlapping generations when a majority of the people at the time would be seeing the “signs” of the End Times, well since when have we NOT seen signs of the End Times???) I remember specifically that it was STRESSED THAT NOT ALL OF THE FAITHFUL AND DISCREET SLAVE ALIVE IN 1914 WOULD PASS AWAY BEFORE THE END CAME. What the REAL point was, however, was that those on the Governing Body who were not of the Elect were “Helpers” also directed by God’s Spirit. Some day those Helpers might be the ONLY PEOPLE ON THE GOVERNING BODY. Oops, no longer any Elect among those chose by God to Direct his Mother organization on Earth? Hmmm, well, they never answered THAT question.

    I digress. I left in 2003, so I missed the latest (?) NEW LIGHT. By now, if there is still anyone alive in the Jehovah’s Witnesses were were the Chosen Ones (Elect) alive in 1914, they are 101 years old. Are there ANY Elect still alive and sitting on the Governing Body? Not that I care, but maybe some active JWs still care, because they remember what the original teachings were.

    I also want to add a comment about the 1914 generation teaching. I started studying about 1993 and got baptized in 1996. In 1993, I don’t remember the exact wording, but published on the inside of the front cover of the WT was a sentiment saying that those who saw the events of 1914 would not pass away before seeing Armageddon, something like that.

    As an aside, when did MOTHER cease to be a Spirit-directed organization? That was very much emphasized during my time in the JWs (I left in 2003), because it gave legitimacy to the proclamations coming from the Governing Body. Did the shift away from being spirit-directed rattle any of the old-timers still alive when this happened? Guess I’ll never know.

    I feel sorry for them, though. One of my teachers, with whom I remained close until I left JWs, was a lovely elderly woman who had fought the good fight back in the 1930s and 1940’s. She could not understand why I had such trouble accepting the TWO WITNESSES nonsense about sexual assault crimes within the congregation — this was during the time when the Silent Lambs website first appeared and t.v. programs were being aired about the scandal and the law suits being filed against Jehovah’s Witnesses congregations and the cover-ups of sexual assault crimes that had taken place. Within six weeks of hearing the platform talk about the “TWO WITNESSES” TO ANY SEXUAL ABUSE ALLEGATIONS (like there was audience to the crime???), and how we were NEVER to discuss such things among ourselves, or speculate, because we could be disfellowshipped for slander, etc. etc., I sent a letter to the elders withdrawing from the congregation.

    My regards to those of you who maintain this site. To those of you who may sometimes struggle, as I did (a college educated woman cast back to the 19th century) with teachings of the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society, just remember that Jesus did not emphasize teaching through endless words and more words so much as teaching by showing others how to be a Christian by how we live and treat each other each and every day, even when we think nobody is looking.

    Namaste.

  261. Thank you Jan for your thoughtful post.

    Doug

  262. George (also posted previously as anonymous)

    Back on April 6 of 2014 I posted the following:
    ” Now, it is the job of every Witness to spread the “good news” to as many people as possible and according to the “Society” throughout the inhabited earth “and then the end will come”. At least, that is my understanding.”
    At that time I had assumed that their intent was to reach “everyone”- that is, all the inhabitants of the world and of course you can see that I came up with a bit of arithmetic to prove that this was not possible. Having talked to a few of them since then, it seems that I was in error about this detail. That is, they state that their task is simply to preach though out the world UNTIL the end comes (caps for emphasis, not for “shouting”). So I was in error in making that assumption. I wanted to correct that since it was a foolish error on my part and I should have asked prior to writing that post.

  263. Thanks George! I’m glad we finally got that straightened out. I was losing sleep.

    (grins)

    Seriously, thanks for your conscientious post.

    Doug

  264. George

    What can I say? When I make a mistake like this, it bothers me that I didn’t get my facts straight before posting on it. It has been my experience in the past that a mistake like this will get “called out” by someone or another somewhere down the line, so I just thought I would say “mea culpa: mea maxima culpa” now.
    Thanks for your time and understanding, Doug.

  265. Mistakes are merely opportunities to learn and grow. They make us, not only human, but interesting.

    Thanks George!

    Doug

  266. Shari Flower-Sweeney

    Love this site. I was raised a Jehovahs Witness when I was young. My dad basically forced it on us but I was a good girl. Not standing up for the flag, not able to sing (my God given talent) the National Anthem when my music teacher asked me too over the loud speaker. Not able to go downstairs to the Christmas tree at my Grandmother’s house. I was a good girl. Until I couldn’t take it anymore and let drugs overtake me, run away from home and basically try to destroy myself because I knew I couldn’t be good enough to be saved. I ran away at 14 because my father was forcing me to go to this church and it’s only by God’s precious grace that he kept me alive during that time. He knew I was going to be His. I learned about his wonderful grace and that it wasn’t me that had to be good, but it was Him who took my place on the cross and saved me from my sin. He was always there and he opened up my eyes when the time was right and took my fear away. I can’t say it was easy to find a church because they definitely let me down many times over. But now I am an active member of a small church — I play guitar and sing in a couple of worship bands and am at such peace and joy. Its so sad that JW’s will never know that peace as long as they stay in that cult. And it’s a shame that so many are deceived. My father died as one of them. They took over that service and talked about themselves the whole time and how good they are. It made me so sick. They took the cross down in the funeral home before the service. It was my father’s wishes and my sister complied. I had no peace at his funeral believe me.

  267. Shari,

    What an amazing journey you’ve had.

    It is absolutely horrifying to me how this scenario plays itself out over and over again with each subsequent generation of Jehovah’s Witness kids. We had so many youth in the Kingdom Hall that went this route with drugs and alcohol. I believe it to be an integral part of growing up a JW. You either become some emotional robot incapable of real, genuine personal expression, stilted and socially retarded or you become a rebel and start destroying yourself with alcohol, drugs and illicit sex. I’ve seen it happen too many times even to members of my own family.

    A lot of them never make it. They end up committing suicide or screwing their lives up so badly that they can never get back from it. Some come back to the Kingdom Hall and get reinstated. A very precious few, like yourself, finally find your peace in God apart from the terrible influence of the Watchtower.

    I’m so glad you found your peace and joy Shari and thank you so much for taking the time to share your experience with all of us.

    God bless you!

    Doug

  268. Shari Flower-Sweeney

    Thanks Doug, and thanks for this site. God’s grace is too precious to waste. He has made me super-aware of this fact and I let nobody tell me I can lose my salvation as the Lord says Nobody can take you out of his hand, not Angels, nor Principalities. We are His forever if we believe in Him. It’s such a beautiful gift that the Jehovah’s Witnesses steal from you and it’s bitter sad.

  269. Tracy

    But they did the math and now they changed up the definition of the word “generation”…..and are still being held captive by the new “light.” ugh.

  270. Garrett

    Tracy
    This is just one of many times they made a prediction. They were picking datee all the way back to 1884…..lets see if i can remeber most of the end of the workd dates…..

    1884 1888 1914 1915 1918 1925 1941 1975 70-80 generation …

    Its beyond comical…. And Deuteronomy says that false prophets were to be stoned to death!
    Deut 18: 20-22

  271. Gepe

    I totally understand how you feel Doug,I just left the LDS/Mormon church for some of the same reasons.I do NOT believe in organized religion anymore.It’s taken me most of my life to figure this all out….but as a “Christian” I feel I’m free.Religion was started by a “man”…a “human,mortal man/group of men”. I really think God never intended for it to be this way.I really think most or all religions are “cults”……groups to control people,the LDS church controlled every aspect of a members life.I follow the Bible and I think if more people did that they would be better off in the long run.I use to have a JW friend,she was a good person but sadly I had to end my friendship with her due to the constant fighting with her husband.I have health problems and it was too stressful on me.I do remember respecting her religion and beliefs,and she respected mine.The #1 thing that REALLY bothered me about the JW’s though…. was their refusing to serve in the military.That was an excuse I think…again people using religion as a tool.

  272. Bev

    I am one of those that couldn’t stomach the “overlapping generations”, this new light is a complete joke, and what’s worse then them telling us, is that everyone in my family has eaten it up…*smacking head against wall. I had other issues and experiences which lead me to be frustrated with this religion (born in)…but the generation was truly the final straw. I see it nothing more than another false prophecy given to us by evangelistic Pharisees of our time. I’m done with all the rules, and my children will no longer be raised with this mind control…I am still working on my husband, he left…but his mind has not left. He’s still quite attached to rules, esp against holidays…despite my reasoning. However, for the kids, I do have him compromising, so it’s a start.

  273. Good for you Bev!

    I was able to keep my daughter out of it but my family continues to try to infect her with their propaganda at every turn.

    She’s got a great education and a good, independent spirit so I’m confident she’ll be fine.

    I saw this new “light” coming a mile away. The time eventually got away from them so that they had to make up something that “worked”.

    I remember reading in one of the Studies In The Scriptures about the reason 1914 didn’t bring Armageddon. They threw out the same argument the WT made about 1975, that there was a difference between the creation of Adam and the creation of Eve and that nobody knew how long that was.

    Amazing how easy it is to fool people when they desperately want to believe something.

    Doug

  274. Anonymous

    “Amazing how easy it is to fool people when they desperately want to believe something.”… hit the nail on the head right there Doug!

  275. Jodoggie

    Ooh but don’t you know. “Even the Apostles made mistakes.”

  276. Using that type of circular, illogical reasoning, anyone who claims to be a representative of God must be one since “even the apostles made mistakes”.

    The Watchtower uses this tactic all the time to excuse their numerous failed prophecies, changed policies and breaches of confidence with their followers.

    I call it the old “Brooklyn Two Step”:

    1. “That was then, this is now.”

    2. “Even the apostles made mistakes.”

    If someone wanted to they could explain away any act, no matter how heinous, using this method. All they would need is a little time and a younger generation of blind followers to launch even the most blatantly obvious attempts to erase the historical record.

    Be very afraid of anyone who uses or believes this type of cult nonsense.

    Doug

  277. Michel

    Your reasoning is on pointe. By the WT’s logic, we should believe the words of all of the False Prophets in the Bible. They, too, made mistakes; and their false prophesies were merely “old light” that were awaiting further illumination. I was a Witness for 12 years. How did I not see this? Easy answer – I selfishly wanted to live forever on a Planet Earth. I jumped through all the hoops. Went out in service trying to find those lost sheep. I was not doing this for them; I was doing it to EARN my way to everlasting life. I was a fool.

  278. Michel, you may have been a fool, as was I. We both bought the Watchtower’s “fairy tale” hook, line and sinker and fought blindly to hold on to it as long as we could. We made it part of our own personal identity and then jumped onto the Watchtower’s “activity track” being virtually guaranteed by everyone around us that our work would get us into paradise.

    However, you have awakened from the dream. You realize now that the Bible clearly states faith, apart from works, is what gets us into paradise.

    “Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. Because of what law? The law that requires works? No, because of the law that requires faith. For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the law.” (Romans 3:27-28)

    But that’s what we all were. We worked diligently so as to boast of our achievements as if God were somehow to be impressed with our hours of field service, meeting attendance and participation.

    Much like the apostle Paul, we realized that works were not what was required for salvation but faith in Christ and His sacrifice for all of us. Paul was a Pharisee and was taught from an early age a clear path of works that led to salvation. It took Christ’s direct intervention to get Paul to understand the value of faith apart from works.

    “When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.” (1 Corinthians 13:11)

    Glad to have you with us Michel, even if what we have right now isn’t “paradise”. Perhaps “paradise” is being able to use your own God-given logic to determine the correct path for yourself.

    Doug

  279. Nicola

    Do you do this against the churches or other religious organisations?
    You didn’t love god and you had the choice to leave, and as we can see you left. If your family chose to stay and not be with you, that’s their choice. You wasn’t made to stay by force or ill treatment.
    We all have the freedom of choice… yet you seem to want to take that away from others and use gods name to get them to follow you.

    I’ll pray for you that you just live the life you choose and lead it quietly just as many other people do.
    Attacks will not get you back to your family so I’m confused as to what you gain from drawing out others…. is it so you do not feel alone?? Or possibly to make you feel better about your choice??

    People can be hurt by their family in all sorts of ways that do not include religion, and they do not start up a group or movement to shame them.
    I hope you see this for what it is… I’m not attacking you I’m just questioning your behaviour.

  280. You simply don’t get me, obviously.

    My blog is me saying my piece to the world. That’s it. No “movement” as you call it. No “follow me” ads on here. No “join my church” banners. Just me sharing the unadulterated truth about my experiences in a cult and how I got out with my sanity and life intact.

    You may not like or agree with my opinions and that’s okay.

    Oh and thanks so much for judging me and saying what you said about me not loving God. I find it absolutely astounding that JW’s simply assume that when someone leaves their organization that they do so because they don’t love God! Get a clue! It’s because I woke up to the abuses of power and mind control in a cult where I was force fed propaganda from the time I was three years old!

    You know if you actually took the time to read my blog you’d find that I love God very much. What do they say about “liars not inheriting the kingdom”? Oh and “Judge not lest ye be judged”? You should pay more attention to the scriptures “sistah”!

    I do find it quite ironic and somewhat humorous that someone who knocks doors and shares their uninvited opinions on God with others on a regular basis would stoop so low as to judge me for telling my story online.

    Kind of makes me shake my head and smile just a little at your hubris.

    Doug

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