Over 100,000 Page Views And Counting!

Jul 21, 2014 by

celebrationJust a couple of days ago we hit the 100,000 page views mark in just over a year since I started tracking our page views.

I didn’t place that much literature in a “lifetime” of working for the “seven old men” in Brooklyn!

We also have over 7500 members of the blog now! These are all avid readers of what is posted here and they all get an email every time I post something new.

I think I’ve finally balanced the scales and put enough positives out there to counteract all of the negatives that were inflicted upon me and my family for the twenty-three years that I was a member.

To think that some of the more impolite (I’m being very kind when I say “impolite”!) JW’s that initially visited my blog said that I didn’t have an audience and that my blog wouldn’t ever make any difference.

It does and it has!

Thank you all for being part of my own personal therapy.

It feels great to have been able to create so much buzz and so many positives in so many lives across the world.

I could never have done it without you.

Thank you for helping me achieve this meaningful piece of work that changes lives every single day!

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148 Comments

  1. victoria

    Thank you for your articles, I find them so helpful in getting over the ‘guilt’ of never being good enough in the eyes of J.W.
    Until a few years back I tried my hardest again after being disfellowshipped twice.
    I had to take a big step back and only then did I realise how corrupt and manipulative the organization was.
    I am now labelled a ‘lost cause’ but to be honest I have never been so content in my whole life.
    Years of being bullied, gossip, elders meetings, being told I don’t get invited to gatherings because the sisters do not like me around their husbands. Having ministerial servants come to my house at night to see how I was going brining with them bottles of wine, yet I was labelled the bad one.
    I have an ex husband who still has privileges in the hall, that doesn’t pay child support nor sees his daughter.. except for once a year where he takes her to the district convention. My daughter comes home crying saying she feels bad for not doing better for Jehovah. I hate this because this is what I was made to feel and it almost ruined my life. I am trying to put a stop to all that now.
    I don’t hate JW I truly feel sorry for them, they are caught up in a brainwashing story.

  2. zebagain

    Big hugs..

  3. Skyhawk

    I read that there is a huge drop-out rate of Jehovah’s Witnesses, about seventy percent. Looking back, most of the members in the congregation I was with have dropped out including Servants who were then of high standing. I guess after a while people wise up and realize something is wrong. Instead of real love, compassion and understanding, they witness strictness, pettiness, small-mindedness, little love.

    On article I recently read on-line that the Watchtower Dovirty is really just a business selling their publications, labeling it a contribution. I remember saying to the householder that we were placing the magazines and books with them for a contribution of ten cents or, fifty cents for the books.

    Oh what a relief to be out and far removed from being a Jehovah’s Witness.

    The Watchtower Society’s announcement that Armageddon would in 1914, then moved the year to 1925, then 1975. Still no Armageddon. It’s just a matter of time till the game’s up with the Watchtower Society.

    Curious, the Watchtower Society is a non-profit organization chartered in the state of Pennsylvania. They pay no taxes. Where does all the money go?

    I left the organization in 1965. Each congregation then was fiscally on its own paying rent if there was one. The congregation I was with moved several times. At one point one of the members offered a run-down garage-like structure to use as a Kingdom Hall. We pitched in puttying and painting the interior. Then after three years the Kingdom Hall moved to a store front builfing. Donations paid for the rent.

    My brother, three years my junior who went to Gilead, is the only one in the family who is still a Witness. He told me a few years back, he regrets not having had a college education. I found his statement surprising. The Watchtower Society during the 1950s – 1960s strongly condemned universities and colleges, calling it all kinds of names.

    Oh well . . .

  4. Garrett

    Congratulations Doug…it’s really an accomplishment .
    Efforts by people such as yourself are all part of the siege that will make this cult fall.
    Perhaps in the future I will be able to put forth my own campagnes to join in the fight if my life frees up.
    Best wishes to you and thank you.
    Garrett

  5. Thanks Garrett! We welcome your help anytime you wish to join in the fray!

    Doug

  6. Hatred takes effort and makes the hate a part of you. Simply let it go and watch your life transform into what it was SUPPOSED to be all along.

    I recently wrote on another forum the following:

    “The best way to forgive the mean, hateful, judgmental people in your life is to simply forgive them…and lock the door behind them when they leave.”

    Thank you for sharing and caring enough to share V! You are the adult in your child’s life now and it sounds like you’re taking the appropriate steps to make sure that the WT can’t ever repeat in your daughter what they did to you.

    I applaud you!

    Doug

  7. I think the most heinous of crimes is taking someone’s years away from them. That is what the Watchtower does. By the time most people wise up their most productive years have passed them by.

    That being said, there is always time for a new start and all we really have is now. We can look back but we can’t change a thing. All we have is this moment. What to do with it? Waste it worrying about what we’ve lost or do we seize it and make the most of it now?

    Believe me your musings have crossed my mind as well.

    Thank you for commenting and letting us know your thoughts Skyhawk.

    Doug

  8. Back at you Z!

  9. victoria

    Thank you for your great words.
    I will not let my daughter get brainwashed into the JW group. She will have an education and live guilt free. I don’t hate.. I learn from them and I have become all the wiser.. continue your great work x

  10. :) I’m so happy for you V!

  11. kat

    bravo!!

  12. Yvonne Sharpe

    Well said Victoria. I am so proud of you. I have seen you become a happier and better person since you took control of your own life. I wish I had seen through the ‘organization’ a lot sooner. I’m so glad you are free to be the truly great person you are.
    XX Mum

  13. Anonymous

    The WT is a business, and has recruits working for a group of men calling themselves the FDS the GB, its a corporate business, and sadly most stay because of family, generations of JW usually stay because of family.

    They rule by fear, but the good thing is that all this is being exposed and helping those that really want to be free to find a safer loving place, that is a relationship with Jesus Christ, he is the only way to salvation everything else is slavery to man something he condemned, the GB are like modern day superfine apostles, very pharisaic and rule with fear not love.

  14. Awesome!

    Just imagine: This website has helped free not one, not two, but THREE generations of people and their families!

    Now THAT is making a positive difference!

  15. Well said!

    Thank you Anon!

  16. kat

    No worries Doug those leaving the WT cult need ones like you and others to help them recover, depending on the person and situation can take a long time, but as your site often brings out, concentrating on the positive and trying to get on with life is the way to go, taking baby steps and relying on God’s holy spirit for comfort and direction.

    sorry my post came up as anon I forgot to sign in.

  17. Great advice Kat!

  18. Anonymous

    I can’t stand reading anything you write. You have such hate. Congratulations for being responsible for the misguidance of over 100,000 readers. The fact that you were a former jw of 25 years makes it even worse. Woe to you sir. Woe to you.

  19. Anonymous

    In a world that’s so full of hate I can honestly say that jws seem to have found peace already. The fact that other religions support war or even kill there own brothers of the same religion doesn’t make sense to me.

  20. Anonymous

    Go to jw.org and make the conclusion for yourself instead of listening to this guy who has no scriptural basis. He’s not backing up anything he says with scriptures he’s just talking.

  21. Truth is where you find it Anon. The proof you ask for is right in front of you when you attend the meetings. You KNOW how “apostates” are referred to and treated if you’ve spent more than six months in the org. Most who visit here know first hand. So where do you get off passing judgment on someone like me who spent a very long time in the org and drew his own conclusions? Are you JUDGING me? Note that when you pass judgment you fall into the same trap the Pharisees did. They accused Christ of having a demon. Are you accusing ME of having one sir?

    May as well I guess. You’ve made it very clear that I’ve got some “mysterious” judgment waiting for me at the end of my days. Well if coming clean, telling the truth, and backing EVERYTHING I say up with scripture is a crime then let the punishment begin.

    I have no hate. I just have seen through the façade of what the Jehovah’s Witnesses teach. I’ve pierced that place where no JW is supposed to go and I’ve seen the true motivation behind what they teach. It isn’t to empower but to disempower. It isn’t to free but to enslave. It doesn’t bring happiness. It brings only false hope. Once you’ve ridden that bus for a very long time you come to the realization that it will never arrive at its posted destination.

    So I’m standing at the bus stop with a sign. It says “You’re not going anywhere. You can get off and find your own way or you can continue to sit for the rest of your life on a bus that will never arrive.”

    Doug

  22. Of course! They’ll kick their friends and family to the curb never speaking to them again. They’ll even disown their own children or parents. The will even allow their own children to die rather than to accept a life saving blood transfusion and will fight anyone who tries to administer one to them but they’ll never go to war. That’s true love isn’t it Anon?

    Do you realize just how hypocritical that sounds?

  23. Skyhawk

    Well said Doug , well said!

    Rather, the person that wrote that post reeked with hate!

    If that person really had the truth in her/ his heart, that person would not have reacted as such, but would have responded with kindness and patience.

  24. Amazing that this person was visiting an “apostate” website. I guess they don’t get to dish out enough to each other they have to come find some poor apostate and spew their hate at him.

    Oh well. It takes all kinds doesn’t it Skyhawk?

    Thank you for saying that and for being a friend to me and this site. It makes it a lot more bearable when we have good people on here who really care about others.

    Doug

  25. Anonymous

    Actually I stumbled upon this site which was a big mistake to be honest. I’m not being hateful at all. Did I say you were an apostate? Seems you drew that conclusion on your own. Are you saying you are an apostate? this is what the bible says about apostates.

    Proverbs 11:9

    Isaiah 10:6

    Isaiah 33:14

    Isaiah 9:17

    Your so hateful towards the bible and god that you most likely won’t even read these scriptures. I’m not a jw but I have a lot of respect for them.

  26. Anonymous

    I’m not a male I’m a 23 year old woman who’s pretty knowledgable for my age if you ask me.

  27. Anonymous

    I’m done commenting on here. There’s no point in arguing with someone with a hard heart.

  28. Skyhawk

    Well Doug, I am able to read your heart and spirit through your posts. You don’t nurse any hate of anger. You’re here to lend support to others who find themselves in a quandary with being a JW.

    I was a JW from age eight to just after I turned twenty-one. My adult life wasn’t wasted being a JW. However, it took most of my adult life to get over the complexes created in me from what I was taught as a JW.

  29. Skyhawk

    Ah, but how doth she protests.

    Doug isn’t hateful. But your posts reeks with anger, a form of hate.

  30. zebagain

    do you have kids?
    How far did you go in school.?
    Please allow me to add to your experience.
    My change of course began with all the silly rules; e.g.
    #wearing suits in hot weather,
    #that some had earned the ‘privilege’ of opening windows. In the work a day world if you open a window then you close it after.
    #requiring little children to sit up through meetings when their bodies were calling for sleep,
    #some fashions being popular described as ‘worldly’ while elders daughters turned up skimpy,
    #bans on beards, and there are others.. pathetic silly little rules for a people who have nothing else..

    but my disillusion was complete when learning years after it had happened of the sexual abuse of my children by one of those perfect brothers;
    by all the rules the wts holds to as indicators.
    #reg field service,
    #dress the right way,
    #hand up to every wt question etc.
    Except this perfection is marred by 30 + victims behind him and conviction.
    Since that crushing moment I explored the web and found out the plethora of sex abuse cases that were going on around the wt world and the way the wts was doing its crumby best to cover them up, harass the victims, and defend the offenders even when in some cases they had prior conviction.
    Add to this the pay out to many when the wts was heading for conviction in a court and payouts with gag orders attached.
    Such is corporate behaviours’. And do not own the tiniest form of Godliness. Then there are the ever changing rules but that is another matter.
    Am I trying to convince you, no ,do I seek to convince others, no. We are all on our own path something I learned so vividly as I nearly died once and all the trappings of life fell away, traffic, marriage , job family religion gender, taxes, mortgage, town, nation it all was going and as an individual entity I knew a peace that I had never known.

  31. Anonymous

    All of you are to focused on imperfect people. You let certain things make you so mad and instead of praying to Jehovah God about it you just leave Jehovah. Who cares what he or she wore or what this person says or does or did. Focus on yourself and YOUR relationship with Jehovah. But you don’t want to have a friendship with Jehovah which is why you’ll come up with all these “excuses” of why you shouldn’t serve Him

  32. Anonymous

    I never see Jehovah’s witnesses wearing a whole suit in service in the summer. Have you heard of short sleeve dress shirts and. Nice pair of dress pants? Just like a salesman who goes door to door looks presentable as should gods people when there talking with people about the bible. So what if parents are waking there kids up when they fall asleep. A teacher does that to students in there classrooms. How can you learn if your asleep.

  33. Anonymous

    And I’m ignoring your comment about all these jws who you claim to be rapists and child molesters. That’s just ridiculous.

  34. Garrett

    Anonymous,
    Please give us your name and the congregation you attend. I will then write in to New York and to your congregation and inform them you are having direct dealings with whom they call call ” apostates”. Once they drag you into that little back room and put the squeeze on you, then you will find out how loving your brothers are, how much freedom of thought and action you really have and how open minded your “brothers” are.
    While you are there you can ask them about the comment made on the History Channel that “Jehvahs Witnesses have predicted the end of the world 9 times” if they don’t wish to give you those dates, I will.

    So let’s have it. What is your name and address of the congregation you attend?

    Garrett

  35. kat

    Anonymous, you seem very miffed of the fact that his site has over 100,000 page views and counting, I think you should take an aspirin and get over it, I mean most on this site have gotten over the WT and those that haven’t are finding food at the proper time, food to help them recover, not the poison of the WT false prophecies and their Pharisaic rules, this place has become a haven for the many suffering JW, to bad jw. or can’t provide the help for their own suffering flock.

  36. Anonymous

    100,000 page views is nothing compared to the almost 8 million active Jehovah’s witnesses that there are sir. Just because a page was viwed 100,000 times doesn’t meAn it was 100,000 different people who viwed it.

  37. Anonymous

    For one I’m not giving you personal information about me. You really think I’m going to tell somone I don’t know where I live. And even if they did find out so what there not going to pull me in a room. What would happen if it did happen is a magazine would come out telling the dangers if how people who hate Jehovah can ruin your own relationship with

  38. Garrett

    Anonymous
    I’m still waiting for your name and congregation address.
    If your being here is of noble purpose, I wish to inform your congregation so they can reward you.
    So let’s have it.
    Garett

  39. Garrettt

    I’m not asking where you live. Just your first name and last initial and hall you go to.
    I know your elders will sort you out from there.
    Stop being a coward.
    Let’s have it.

    Doug, some sites show the URL and the person and address it’s registered to. Can you get that to me so i can write those letter to her hall and the pricks in New York?

    Garrett

  40. Garrett

    As regards the 100,000 page views vs. 8 million witnesses, if you are looking at sure numbers then the Catholics have 1.2 BILLION. Kinda kickin yer ass I would say .

    As regards the 8 million witnesses. That is an enormous blood guilt the Governing Body has on its hands for misleading so many sincere people. I was one of those sincere suckers once. Take for example the following magazine I would have taken to the door in my senior year.

    http://orthocath.files.wordpress.com/2010/12/1984_watchtower_cover_1914_generation.jpg

    False prophets were to be stoned to death in the bible, not followed or defended. When you continue to associate with that evil salve class of the Governing Body, you become ” a sharer in the sins of others” .
    Their blood guilt becomes your blood guilt.

    Time to wake up.

  41. Again with the judgments? Really? And playing the whole “I didn’t SAY she was an idiot. She just ASSUMED that all by herself.” That is so typical. My mother does it all the time. She’ll say something and then when she’s called out on her own bullshit she’ll back up and say…”Oh but I didn’t actually SAY that.”

    Actually, Christ was an apostate. He turned His back on the Jewish system and started a completely new one. Kind of makes you “Hmmm” doesn’t it? Paul was a fellow apostate with Christ. He turned his back on them too even though he was a high ranking and well respected member of the religious leaders (Jews) of his day.

    So actually, Anon, if you want to call me an apostate in reference to the Jehovah’s Witnesses, I can think of no better description or compliment for that matter.

    Doug

  42. Oh yes. We can tell. Sorry for the gender misapplication though. If you’d use an actual name or at least an alias then we’d be able to refer to you in your preferred gender.

    Doug

  43. Oh but you aren’t. You just can’t resist it.

    Doug

  44. Garrett

    Doug, you need to keep this chick on.
    Since her arrival the page views and comments have skyrocketed !
    To whom do we owe the thanks young lady? Gotta a name or just a stick ?

  45. Skyhawk

    Wow Doug!

    The fireworks.

    Is it always like this? So many posts.

    I shall come by more often after this.

  46. Garrett

    If I can bring this whole thing back in track.?

    Doug it is a great accomplishment. 7,500 blog members is huge. Comparatively that is 75 congregations out there. That is the size of a district as such conventions are often close to or under 10k.
    It has made me much more cognizant that I too need to start my own efforts to warn people. Rent a billboard, hand out fliers, start a website, contact the media ( especially in this 2014 generation flop year). Responsibility and blood guilt for our past sins of taking poison to people’s doors require it.

    Well done!
    G

  47. Zeb,

    I can’t begin to imagine the pain that caused you. There was a brother who had been convicted of sexual molestation and he was allowed to remain in the congregation because the elders didn’t “recognize worldly judgments”. So he was allowed to mingle with the congregation and my sister ended up falling in love and marrying this jerk. He was out on appeal and then his appeal was denied. He had to go to prison. While in prison he confessed to one of the counselors that he was guilty. The counselor told my sister because he thought she deserved to know. Well years of appeals, visits to prison, etc. and then she was divorced. All because these elders allowed this wolf in sheep’s clothing to remain a part of the congregation.

    Keeping the congregation clean? More like damage control if you ask me. Your characterization of the WT operating like a corporation is spot on.

    Doug

  48. I still serve God Anon. I just don’t do it the “approved Watchtower way”.

  49. So sad and so typical.

    Doug

  50. I won’t do that although your request make me laugh out loud. That would be too funny.

    No I think that deep down Anon knows something. Otherwise she wouldn’t be here reading this blog. Let her be. Even the apostle Paul stoned Christians before he became one himself. God truly works in mysterious ways.

    Doug

  51. I call this a typical JW “driveby”. They get on and start foaming at the mouth. They can’t help it. I was one you know. I know what she is feeling right now and I know just how angry she is. I have been there. I literally loathed Jerry H. some days when he’d show up with his well worn Bible in hand. But you know what? The message He had finally sunk in. I owe him a huge debt of gratitude for helping me free myself. Perhaps, one day, our little lady will write something similar about us.

    Stranger things have happened Skyhawk!

    Doug

  52. Anonymous

    How can you say Christ was an apostate and then say you love god at the same time?

  53. Anonymous

    Since all of you have no problem referring to your selves as apostates how can you also say that your religious and believe in god? Like I’ve mentioned before an apostate is someone who abandons religious belief and the teaching of it.

    And the full meaning of abandon is

    To give up completely (a course of action, a practice, or a way of thinking).

    So if you abandon god and can you love god?

    I would would now like to ask what all of your religious beliefs are without bringing up any of the teachings of Jehovah’s witnesses because you are clearly not a servant of Jehovah god

  54. Garrett

    Another Anonymous….. Everyone just likes to throw rocks from the bushes.

    Either way, for you hiding in the bushes…
    None of us really consider ourselves apostates in the true sense of the word.
    We adopt this label because it has been slapped on us. It’s like when black people call each other nigger. They might as well have a laugh and run with it.
    A true apostate is someone who goes against Christ . Since Christ is all truth, the watchtower governing body are the true apostates for their lies, cover ups and false prophesy .
    If you wish to call me an apostate, or nigger…. That’s ok with me….whitey

  55. Anonymous

    I don’t know what god your serving but it’s certainly not Jehovah. Jehovah is the only true god and I encourage anyone who isn’t a member of this site and who is just reading it to see for yourself it’s not a made up name. And Doug knows gods name is Jehovah he’s rather not admit it because he said himself he doesn’t even like Gods own son. How can you love god yet hate his son. after what Jesus did for us? Dying so that all of us may have a chance of everlasting life? Jesus died for us and this guy who claims to be religious just made up lies about Jesus and said that Jesus abandoned the teachings of the bible. I’m pretty sure that if Jesus was an apostate sir non of us would be alive today.

  56. Anonymous

    Satan the devil is the one who abandoned the teachings of Jehovah . NOT Jesus

  57. Anonymous

    I’m the same chick who’s been commenting on here I’m not hiding I just don’t give out personal information about me over the internet.

  58. Anonymous

    You said a true apostate is someone who goes against Christ. Doug the maker of this site in front of everyone bashed Jesus. Are you saying he is a true apostate. Like The dictionary says clearly an apostate is someone who goes against the belief and teaching of Jehovah god. Not just Jesus. The whole thing sir.

  59. Garrett

    First off , God is spelled with a Capitol letter G , (you who hide in the bushes)
    Secondly, Gods name is from the Tetragrammaton . YHWH. There is no letter J in there. The name Jehovah was first coined by a Catholic monk by the name of Raymundus. Look in the Aid to Bible understanding book. Jehovah’s Witnesses got rid if that book because it was so accurately written by Raymond Franz that it showed various teaching the watchtower held dear as wrong . Jehovah is one of them . No one really knows how the divine name was pronounced … Even you good sir….
    But it certainly has no J in it.

  60. Skyhawk

    Use an alias which affords you anonymity.

  61. Garrett

    This is from the Aid to bible understanding…. Just so you know you are following the creation of a 13 the century monk.

    By combining the vowel signs of ‘Adho.nay and ‘Elo.him’ with the four consonants of the Tetragrammaton the pronunciations Yeho.wah’ and Yehowih’ were formed. The first of these provided the basis for the Latinized form “Jehova(h).” The first recorded use of this form dates from the thirteenth century C.E. Raymundus Martini, a Spanish monk of the Dominican Order, used it in his book Pugeo Fidei of the year 1270. Hebrew scholars generally favor “Yahweh” as the most likely pronunciation.(6)

    aid to Bible understanding 1971 pp 884, 885

    The watchtower referring to a “Catholic Monk” concerning the name “Jehovah”

  62. Skyhawk

    Where dictionary are you using?

    Here is the formal defininition:

    Inflected Form(s): plural apos·ta·sies
    Etymology: Middle English apostasie, from Late Latin apostasia, from Greek, literally, revolt, from aphistasthai to revolt, from apo- + histasthai to stand — more at stand
    Date: 14th century
    1 : renunciation of a religious faith 2 : abandonment of a previous loyalty : defection

  63. Garrett

    I use the watchtowers own words .
    Reasoning from the scriptures if I recall.
    You never commented in the 1914 generation magazine cover I sent you, nor the HISTORY Channel commenting on 9 false dates for Armageddon and now that Jehovah is a made up word by a Catholic Monk right from your own publjcations.
    I’m waiting for your rebuttal on those.
    If you avoid answering those accusations I’ll accept it as a confession if guilt.

  64. Skyhawk

    You are responding to the wrong person.

    I am not that person.

  65. Garrett

    Sorry sky hawk. Small iPhone.
    Trampled under foot. By Led Zeppelin

  66. Skyhawk

    I am not the person you sent the 1914 generation magazine cover You sent, nor the HISTORY Channel commenting on 9 false dates for Armageddon and now that Jehovah is a made up word by a Catholic Monk right from your own publjcations.

  67. Skyhawk

    Quite alright Garrett.

    I too am an Apostate.

  68. Garrett

    Reply to anonymous…..

    Well…I’m a contractor ..time to get back to work…I’ll see you all around for the next battle royal.

    But first a scripture.

    “Woe to those hiding in the bushes. Woe to those who say ” I merely stumbled upon your website”
    Woe to those lingering with apostates. Woe to those with sharp words and no logic, for in a single night their destruction will come”. ( Sela. A melody of Garrett written in the donut shop) Garrett 34:9-12

    Still waiting for those answers anonymous..

  69. Garrett that was genius!

  70. And that is the true definition. Apostasy is NOT a rejection of everything spiritual or a belief in God. It merely describes the abandonment of a former course. For example, any person who becomes a JW is an apostate from their former belief.

    Doug

  71. It is quite obvious, “you who hides in the bushes”, that you have not read a single thing posted on this blog. Otherwise you would know that I hold Christ in the highest regard possible. I would never bash my Lord and Master even in jest. All I said was that He was an apostate from the Jewish system and that He introduced a better way for us to all serve God.

    You’re deliberately putting words in my mouth and making accusations that all on this blog see right through. Shame on you!

    Doug

  72. On that point we are agreed.

  73. Again. SHAME ON YOU. You should know better than to make false accusations. You’ve read nothing of this blog. If you had you would know that I’m a Christian first and foremost. I just reject completely the right of the Watchtower leadership to interpret the Bible for me or my family. I reject the falsehoods and false predictions they have made and I reject that anyone can claim “special knowledge” of God’s purposes without even a shred of proof for their claims.

    You’re twisting everything I write away from the Watchtower leadership and trying to make it sound like I’m attacking Christ. Nothing is further from the truth and you know it.

    Remember, the father of the lie isn’t Jehovah young lady. It is Satan. You would do well to remember that.

    Doug

  74. Anonymous

    That’s right satan is the father of the lie. Satan told lies to Jesus in the bible. He even called Jehovah a liar in the book of genesis

    Satan said you certainly won’t die if you eat from the tree of Jehovah’s garden ,when Jehovah said they positively would die. Satan has always tried to stumble Jehovah’s people and turn them away from the truth

    So why would you want to follow after satan? You are turning people away from the message clearly provided from the bible and, I don’t appreciate you using gods name when you are not one of his witnesses. If you do not believe the teachings that Jehovah god is teaching his people (Jehovah’s witnesses) than you should not use his name. All you are doing is putting shame upon his name and his teaching

    Jehovah knows who his people are that is clear to see.

    Isaiah 43:12
    “I am the One who declared and saved and made known When there was no foreign god among you. So you are my witnesses,” declares Jehovah, “and I am God.

    Isaiah 44:8
    Do not be in dread, And do not become paralyzed with fear. Have I not told each of you beforehand and declared it? You are my witnesses. Is there any God but me? No, there is no other Rock; I know of none.’”

    Isaiah 43:10
    “You are my witnesses,” declares Jehovah, “Yes, my servant whom I have chosen, So that you may know and have faith in me And understand that I am the same One. Before me no God was formed, And after me there has been none.

  75. Anonymous

    You reject the knowledge being received through the watchtower publication clearly provided by Jehovah god..

    1 Samuel 8:7
    and Jehovah said to Samuel: “Listen to everything the people say to you; for it is not you whom they have rejected, but it is I whom they have rejected as their king.

    So really sir you are rejecting Jehovah god

  76. Anonymous

    Proverbs 11:9
    By his mouth the apostate brings his neighbor to ruin, But by knowledge the righteous are rescued.

    Proverbs 10:14
    Those who are wise treasure up knowledge, But the mouth of the fool invites ruin.

    Proverbs 1:7
    The fear of Jehovah is the beginning of knowledge. Only fools despise wisdom and discipline.

    Proverbs 12:1
    The one who loves discipline loves knowledge, But the one who hates reproof is unreasoning.

    Proverbs 13:16
    The shrewd person acts with knowledge, But the fool exposes his own foolishness.

  77. Rejecting WHO? Who am I rejecting when I refuse to read or distribute the drivel that comes from the not so faithful or discreet slave? It certainly isn’t God that I’m rejecting.

  78. The only name by which we are saved:

    Acts 4:1-12

    1The priests and the captain of the temple guard and the Sadducees came up to Peter and John while they were speaking to the people. 2They were greatly disturbed because the apostles were teaching the people, proclaiming in Jesus the resurrection of the dead. 3They seized Peter and John and, because it was evening, they put them in jail until the next day. 4But many who heard the message believed; so the number of men who believed grew to about five thousand.

    5The next day the rulers, the elders and the teachers of the law met in Jerusalem. 6Annas the high priest was there, and so were Caiaphas, John, Alexander and others of the high priest’s family. 7They had Peter and John brought before them and began to question them: “By what power or what name did you do this?”

    8Then Peter, filled with the Holy Spirit, said to them: “Rulers and elders of the people! 9If we are being called to account today for an act of kindness shown to a man who was lame and are being asked how he was healed, 10then know this, you and all the people of Israel: It is by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified but whom God raised from the dead, that this man stands before you healed. 11Jesus is

    “ ‘the stone you builders rejected,
    which has become the cornerstone.’a
    12Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to mankind by which we must be saved.”

    Doug

  79. Anonymous

    And to garret.

    Why does the New World Translation use the form “Jehovah”? In English, the four letters of the Tetragrammaton (יהוה) are represented by the consonants YHWH. As was true of all written words in ancient Hebrew, the Tetragrammaton contained no vowels. When ancient Hebrew was in everyday use, readers easily provided the appropriate vowels.

    About a thousand years after the Hebrew Scriptures were completed, Jewish scholars developed a system of pronunciation points, or signs, by which to indicate what vowels to use when reading Hebrew. By that time, though, many Jews had the superstitious idea that it was wrong to say God’s personal name out loud, so they used substitute expressions. Thus, it seems that when they copied the Tetragrammaton, they combined the vowels for the substitute expressions with the four consonants representing the divine name. Therefore, the manuscripts with those vowel points do not help in determining how the name was originally pronounced in Hebrew. Some feel that the name was pronounced “Yahweh,” whereas others suggest different possibilities. A Dead Sea Scroll containing a portion of Leviticus in Greek transliterates the divine name Iao. Besides that form, early Greek writers also suggest the pronunciations Iae, I·a·be′, and I·a·ou·e′. However, there is no reason to be dogmatic. We simply do not know how God’s ancient servants pronounced this name in Hebrew. (Genesis 13:4; Exodus 3:15) What we do know is that God used his name repeatedly in communication with his people, that they addressed him by that name, and that they used it freely in speaking with others.—Exodus 6:2; 1 Kings 8:23; Psalm 99:9.

    Why, then, does this translation use the form “Jehovah”? Because that form of the divine name has a long history in the English language.

    God’s name at Genesis 15:2 in William Tyndale’s translation of the Pentateuch, 1530

    The first rendering of God’s personal name in an English Bible appeared in 1530 in William Tyndale’s translation of the Pentateuch. He used the form “Iehouah.” Over time, the English language changed, and the spelling of the divine name was modernized. For example, in 1612, Henry Ainsworth used the form “Iehovah” throughout his translation of the book of Psalms. Then, in 1639, when that work was revised and printed with the Pentateuch, the form “Jehovah” was used. In 1901, the translators who produced the American Standard Version of the Bible used the form “Jehovah” where the divine name appeared in the Hebrew text.

    Explaining why he used “Jehovah” instead of “Yahweh” in his 1911 work Studies in the Psalms, respected Bible scholar Joseph Bryant Rotherham said that he wanted to employ a “form of the name more familiar (while perfectly acceptable) to the general Bible-reading public.” In 1930 scholar A. F. Kirkpatrick made a similar point regarding the use of the form “Jehovah.” He said: “Modern grammarians argue that it ought to be read Yahveh or Yahaveh; but JEHOVAH seems firmly rooted in the English language, and the really important point is not the exact pronunciation, but the recognition that it is a Proper Name, not merely an appellative title like ‘Lord.’”

    The Tetragrammaton, YHWH: “He Causes to Become”

    The verb HWH: “to become”

    What is the meaning of the name Jehovah? In Hebrew, the name Jehovah comes from a verb that means “to become,” and a number of scholars feel that it reflects the causative form of that Hebrew verb. Thus, the understanding of the New World Bible Translation Committee is that God’s name means “He Causes to Become.” Scholars hold varying views, so we cannot be dogmatic about this meaning. However, this definition well fits Jehovah’s role as the Creator of all things and the Fulfiller of his purpose. He not only caused the physical universe and intelligent beings to exist, but as events unfold, he continues to cause his will and purpose to be realized.

    Therefore, the meaning of the name Jehovah is not limited to the related verb found at Exodus 3:14, which reads: “I Will Become What I Choose to Become” or, “I Will Prove to Be What I Will Prove to Be.” In the strictest sense, those words do not fully define God’s name. Rather, they reveal an aspect of God’s personality, showing that he becomes what is needed in each circumstance to fulfill his purpose. So while the name Jehovah may include this idea, it is not limited to what he himself chooses to become. It also includes what he causes to happen with regard to his creation and the accomplishment of his purpose.

  80. Anonymous

    Who are the faithful and discreet slaves

    READ IN
    THE WATCHTOWER (STUDY EDITION) JULY 2013

    “Who Really Is the Faithful and Discreet Slave?”

    “Who really is the faithful and discreet slave whom his master appointed over his domestics?”—MATT. 24:45.

    CAN YOU FIND THE ANSWERS?
    Who is the faithful and discreet slave?
    Who are the domestics, and when did Jesus appoint the faithful slave over them?
    When will Christ appoint the faithful slave over all his belongings, and what will they include?
    1, 2. Through what channel is Jesus feeding us today, and why is it vital that we recognize that channel?

    “BROTHERS, I cannot begin to count the times you have put into my hands articles that contained just what I needed when I needed it most.” That is how one sister expressed her appreciation in a letter to the brothers who work at our world headquarters. Can you identify with her? Many of us can. Should that surprise us? Not really.

    2 The timely spiritual food we receive is proof that Jesus, the Head of the congregation, is keeping his promise to feed us. Through whom is he doing so? When giving the sign of his presence, Jesus said that he would use “the faithful and discreet slave” to give “food at the proper time” to his domestics. * (Read Matthew 24:45-47.) That faithful slave is the channel through which Jesus is feeding his true followers in this time of the end. It is vital that we recognize the faithful slave. Our spiritual health and our relationship with God depend on this channel.—Matt. 4:4; John 17:3.

    3. What have our publications stated about the illustration of the faithful slave?

    3 How, then, are we to understand Jesus’ illustration about the faithful slave? In the past, our publications have said the following: At Pentecost 33 C.E., Jesus appointed the faithful slave over his domestics. The slave represents all anointed Christians on earth as a group at any one time since then. The domestics refer to the same anointed ones as individuals. In 1919, Jesus appointed the faithful slave “over all his belongings”—all his earthly Kingdom interests. However, further careful study and prayerful meditation indicate that our understanding of Jesus’ words about the faithful and discreet slave needs to be clarified. (Prov. 4:18) Let us examine the illustration and how it involves us, whether we have the heavenly or the earthly hope.

    WHEN IS THE ILLUSTRATION FULFILLED?

    4-6. Why may we conclude that Jesus’ illustration of the faithful slave began to be fulfilled only after 1914?

    4 The context of the illustration of the faithful and discreet slave shows that it began to be fulfilled, not at Pentecost 33 C.E., but in this time of the end. Let us see how the Scriptures lead us to this conclusion.

    5 The illustration of the faithful slave is part of Jesus’ prophecy about “the sign of [his] presence and of the conclusion of the system of things.” (Matt. 24:3) The first portion of the prophecy, recorded at Matthew 24:4-22, has two fulfillments—first, in the years from 33 C.E. through 70 C.E., and second, in a more far-reaching way in our day. Does this mean that Jesus’ words about the faithful slave would also have two fulfillments? No.

    6 Starting with the words recorded at Matthew 24:29, Jesus focused primarily on events that would happen in our day. (Read Matthew 24:30, 42, 44.) Speaking about what will happen during the great tribulation, he said that people “will see the Son of man coming on the clouds of heaven.” Then, in words meant for those living during the last days, he urged vigilance, saying: “You do not know on what day your Lord is coming” and, “At an hour that you do not think to be it, the Son of man is coming.” * In this context—when speaking about events that would take place in the last days—Jesus related the illustration of the faithful slave. Therefore, we may conclude that his words about that faithful slave began to be fulfilled only after the last days began in 1914. Such a conclusion makes sense. Why is that?

    7. What vital question arose as the harvest season began, and why?

    7 Think, for a moment, about the question: “Who really is the faithful and discreet slave?” In the first century, there was hardly a reason to ask such a question. As we saw in the preceding article, the apostles could perform miracles and even transmit miraculous gifts as proof of divine backing. (Acts 5:12) So why would anyone need to ask who really was appointed by Christ to take the lead? In 1914, however, the situation was much different. The harvest season began in that year. The time had finally arrived to separate the weeds from the wheat. (Matt. 13:36-43) As the harvest season began, a vital question thus arose: With many imitation Christians claiming to be Jesus’ true followers, how could the wheat—anointed Christians—be identified? The illustration of the faithful slave provided an answer. Christ’s anointed followers would be the ones who were well-fed spiritually.

    WHO IS THE FAITHFUL AND DISCREET SLAVE?

    The faithful slave must be made up of anointed Christians on earth. Such ones are called “a royal priesthood” and have been commissioned to “ ‘declare abroad the excellencies’ of the one that called [them] out of darkness into his wonderful light.” (1 Pet. 2:9) It is only fitting that members of that “royal priesthood” have a direct share in teaching fellow believers the truth.—Mal. 2:7; Rev. 12:17.

    Do all anointed ones on earth make up the faithful slave? No. The reality is that not all anointed ones have a role in dispensing spiritual food to fellow believers worldwide. Among the wheat are anointed brothers who may serve as ministerial servants or elders in their local congregation. They teach from house to house and in their congregation, and they loyally support the direction from headquarters. But they do not have a part in dispensing spiritual food to the worldwide brotherhood. Also among the anointed are humble sisters, who would never try to assume the role of teachers in the congregation.—1 Cor. 11:3; 14:34

    Who, then, is the faithful and discreet slave? In keeping with Jesus’ pattern of feeding many through the hands of a few, that slave is made up of a small group of anointed brothers who are directly involved in preparing and dispensing spiritual food during Christ’s presence. Throughout the last days, the anointed brothers who make up the faithful slave have served together at headquarters. In recent decades, that slave has been closely identified with the Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses. Note, however, that the word “slave” in Jesus’ illustration is singular, indicating that this is a composite slave. The decisions of the Governing Body are thus made collectively.

    WHO ARE THE DOMESTICS

    It is noteworthy that in Jesus’ illustration, the faithful and discreet slave receives two distinct appointments. The first is over the domestics; the second is over all the master’s belongings. Since the illustration is fulfilled only in this time of the end, both appointments would have to come after Jesus’ presence in kingly power began in 1914.

    When did Jesus appoint the faithful slave over his domestics? To answer that, we need to go back to 1914—the beginning of the harvest season. As we learned earlier, at that time many groups claimed to be Christian. From which group would Jesus select and appoint the faithful slave? That question was answered after he and his Father came and inspected the temple, or spiritual arrangement for worship, from 1914 to the early part of 1919. * (Mal. 3:1) They were pleased with a small band of loyal Bible Students who showed that their heart was with Jehovah and his Word. Of course, they needed some cleansing, but they humbly responded during a brief period of testing and refining. (Mal. 3:2-4) Those faithful Bible Students were true Christian wheat. In 1919, a time of spiritual revival, Jesus selected capable anointed brothers from among them to be the faithful and discreet slave and appointed them over his domestics.

    Who, then, are the domestics? Put simply, they are those who are fed. Early in the last days, the domestics were all anointed ones. Later, the domestics came to include the great crowd of other sheep. The other sheep now make up the vast majority of the “one flock” under Christ’s leadership. (John 10:16) Both groups benefit from the same timely spiritual food that is dispensed by the faithful slave. What about the Governing Body members who today make up the faithful and discreet slave? Those brothers also need to be fed spiritually. Hence, they humbly recognize that as individuals they are domestics just like all the rest of Jesus’ genuine followers.

    Whether our hope is heavenly or earthly, we are all domestics and need the same timely spiritual food

    Jesus placed a weighty responsibility on the faithful and discreet slave. In Bible times, a trusted slave, or steward, was a house manager. (Luke 12:42) The faithful and discreet slave is thus charged with the responsibility to manage the household of faith. That responsibility includes overseeing material assets, the preaching activity, assembly and convention programs, and the production of Bible literature for use in the field ministry and in personal and congregation study. The domestics depend on all the spiritual provisions dispensed by the composite slave.

    APPOINTED OVER ALL THE MASTER’S BELONGINGS—WHEN?

    When does Jesus make the second appointment—“over all his belongings”? Jesus said: “Happy is that slave if his master on arriving [literally, “having come,” ftn.] finds him doing so. Truly I say to you, He will appoint him over all his belongings.” (Matt. 24:46, 47) Note that Jesus makes the second appointment after he arrives and finds that the slave has been “doing so,” that is, faithfully dispensing spiritual food. So there would be an interval between the two appointments. To understand how and when Jesus appoints the slave over all his belongings, we need to know two things: when he arrives and what his belongings include.

    When does Jesus arrive? The answer is found in the context. Remember that when the preceding verses speak of Jesus as “coming,” the word refers to the time when he comes to pronounce and execute judgment at the end of this system. * (Matt. 24:30, 42, 44) Hence, Jesus’ “arriving,” or “coming,” mentioned in the illustration of the faithful slave takes place during the great tribulation.

    What do “all [Jesus’] belongings” include? Jesus did not qualify the word “all,” as if to limit his belongings to earthly things. In fact, Jesus has vast heavenly authority. “All authority has been given me in heaven and on the earth,” he said. (Matt. 28:18; Eph. 1:20-23) His belongings now include the Messianic Kingdom, which has belonged to him since 1914 and which he will share with his anointed followers.—Rev. 11:15.

    18 In view of the foregoing, what can we conclude? When Jesus comes for judgment during the great tribulation, he will find that the faithful slave has been loyally dispensing timely spiritual food to the domestics. Jesus will then delight in making the second appointment—over all his belongings. Those who make up the faithful slave will get this appointment when they receive their heavenly reward, becoming corulers with Jesus

    Does the faithful slave receive a greater reward in heaven than the rest of the anointed? No. A reward promised to a small group in one setting may ultimately be shared by others. For example, consider what Jesus said to his 11 faithful apostles the night before he died. (Read Luke 22:28-30.) Jesus promised that small group of men that a fine reward awaited them for their faithfulness. They would share his throne of kingly authority. But years later, he indicated that all of the 144,000 will sit on thrones and share his rulership. (Rev. 1:1; 3:21) Similarly, as stated at Matthew 24:47, he promised that a small group of men—the anointed brothers who make up the faithful slave—will be appointed over all his belongings. In reality, all of the 144,000 will share his vast heavenly authority.—Rev. 20:4, 6.

    All of the 144,000 will share Jesus’ vast heavenly authority (See paragraph 19)

    By means of the faithful and discreet slave, Jesus is following the pattern he set in the first century—feeding many through the hands of a few. Jesus appointed that faithful slave to ensure that his genuine followers—whether of the anointed or of the other sheep—would have a steady supply of timely spiritual food throughout the last days. Let us be determined to show our appreciation by giving our loyal support to the anointed brothers who make up that faithful and discreet slave.—Heb. 13:7, 17.

    DID YOU GET THE POINT?
    “The faithful and discreet slave”: A small group of anointed brothers who are directly involved in preparing and dispensing spiritual food during Christ’s presence. Today, these anointed brothers make up the Governing Body
    “His domestics”: All who are fed, whether they are of the anointed or of the other sheep
    “Appointed over his domestics”: In 1919, Jesus selected capable anointed brothers to be his faithful and discreet slave
    “He will appoint him over all his belongings”: Those who make up the composite slave will get this appointment when they receive their heavenly reward. Along with the rest of the 144,000, they will share Christ’s vast heavenly authority
    “IF EVER THAT EVIL SLAVE . . .”
    Jesus has placed the weightiest of responsibilities on the faithful and discreet slave—namely, overseeing the domestics and giving out spiritual food at the proper time. Jesus knew that those with greater responsibility have greater accountability. (Luke 12:48) Hence, he concluded his illustration about the faithful and discreet slave with a powerful warning.

    Jesus warned about an evil slave who concludes in his heart that the master is delaying and who starts to beat his fellow slaves. When the master arrives, said Jesus, he will punish that evil slave “with the greatest severity.”—Read Matthew 24:48-51.

    Was Jesus foretelling that there would be an evil slave class in the last days? No. Granted, some individuals have manifested a spirit similar to that of the evil slave described by Jesus. We would call them apostates, whether they were of the anointed or of the “great crowd.” (Rev. 7:9) But such ones do not make up an evil slave class. Jesus did not say that he would appoint an evil slave. His words here are actually a warning directed to the faithful and discreet slave.

    Notice that Jesus introduces the warning with the words “if ever.” One scholar says that in the Greek text, this passage “for all practical purposes is a hypothetical condition.” In effect, Jesus was saying: ‘If the faithful and discreet slave were ever to mistreat his fellow slaves in these ways, this is what the master will do when he arrives.’ (See also Luke 12:45.) However, the composite faithful and discreet slave has continued to keep on the watch and to provide nourishing spiritual food.

    The anointed brothers who together serve as the faithful slave recognize that they are accountable to the Master for the way they care for his domestics. The heartfelt desire of these anointed brothers is to fulfill their responsibility loyally so that they might hear a “well done” from the Master when he finally arrives!

  81. Anonymous

    I’m done responding on here. Nothing you say or teach will ever compare to what god himself has taught and is teaching.

  82. Garrett

    Hahahahahahahahahahaa!!!!!!!!
    What a bunch of hogwash!!! For many decades the faithful slave was all the anointed, now they changed it so it is just 7 dickheads in New York. It’s laughable they didn’t even know who they claim to be. Just one more flip flop.
    It’s the big shell game if doctrine , now you see it now you don’t. What was regarded last year as gilded 100% truth from Jehovah is thrown out (sorry God) and replaced with something new.
    It’s no longer the generation if individuals who were 15 years of age in 1914 that make up that generation, now it’s “overlapping ” generations . How can people just continue to swallow this crap.
    The Governing Body are serving up manure and calling it chocolate mousse .
    If you wish to keep eating darling, be my guest. Care for a breath mint?

  83. Anonymous

    You act like your so much better than everyone else. What makes you so perfect garret. I don’t even know why you waste your time talking about Jehovah’s witnesses when you hate them so much. Get over yourself. There’s to much pride in you.

    You laugh at Jehovah and his faithful and descreet slaves you laugh at his people. We’ll expect the same to you sir..

    Psalm 59:8
    But you, O Jehovah, will laugh at them; You will scoff at all the nations.

  84. Typical argument with a JW:

    JW: Prove it.

    Apostate: Okay here’s the proof.

    JW: Um where did you get that information?

    Apostate: Why do you care where I got it. It’s factual and here are the photocopies of the original Watchtower publications.

    JW: That’s not right. No these are counterfeit copies. The society never wrote that.

    Apostate: Okay here’s the actual original book showing the same. Satisfied?

    JW: Well that was then. We have received “new light” since then. (Could be last year, last month or 100 years ago.)

    Apostate: What does “new light” have to do with darkness? This was obviously flawed, wrong, and was a complete fabrication. If the Watchtower leaders speak for Jehovah then how can God be part of a lie?

    JW: Well we don’t believe or teach that now.

    Apostate: Well let’s talk about what you DO teach shall we? What about Christ not being the true mediator for the great crowd? What about all of the instances where Christ was worshipped by His own disciples? What about when Christ claimed to be God? What about the fact that those in the resurrection (prior to Christ’s ascension) cannot die? What about the Holy Spirit being grieved and teaching us? Hard to believe that isn’t an actual person isn’t it?

    JW: …I’ve got to go. Talk to you later.

    Apostate: Okay. See you later.

  85. Talk about the kettle calling the pot black!

    All Garrett is doing is calling you out on your own BS Anon!

    Doug

  86. Garrett

    I thought you said you were done posting here? Another flip flop?

    Please tell me you aren’t counting this as field service…

    Happy trails bush dweller. Whether you are done here or not, I am.

    Print this all up and look at it in 10 years time.
    You might realize that people were trying to wake you up but you were in such a drugged state from the GB that you couldn’t get out of the coma.

    I pity you.
    Ciao

  87. Anonymous

    You have no basis for anything.Your wondering why some of the people of the faithful and descreet slaves have been different people over the years. It’s because people get old and die. In the end it will still add up to the amount that Jehovah has chosen. Jehovah chose the ones back then just as he chose the ones now.

  88. Anonymous

    All of you are acting really immature. Are you not adults? Quit acting likes a bunch of kids in school and bullying the innocent. Why don’t you do something better with your time than talking badly about other people, and focus on yourself

  89. Anonymous

    It took you 4 years to gain 7000 members kids get better luck than that posting a 5 second video on youtube. Your so proud of the fact that you have this website that disrespects innocent people and disrespects god. It was viewed 100,000 times well let’s see divide that number by the amount of people who joined thats about 14 views each in total by each person who joined. But if you count possibly extra people it would make the 14 views even less by the people who joined the site. So point is you barely have any people who really cared what you have to say. After all they only looked at it 14 times even less in the course of 4 years. Doesn’t sound interesting to me at all.

  90. Skyhawk

    Garrett, what does GB mean?

    Thanks.

    Skyhawk

  91. Skyhawk

    But why are you here?

  92. Anonymous

    Like I said I was looking something up and this site turned up I read just a few sentences and that was just enough to make me realize how immature and hateful this guy is so being me I had to stick up for innocent people and honestly I did a great job doing it. Now people can see both sides of the story.

    Your welcome.

  93. Garrett

    Sky hawk ..I said I wasn’t going to post anymore here… But to answer your question
    GB is Governing Body. The Borg..taken from Star Trek becomes the robotic “Borganization”
    of brain dead publishers…a Pio-sneer needs no translation, a CIRCUS Overseer should be clear. As should an
    Eldress, .. Check out the ExjWforum on yuku. Look for the watchtower covers and art that have been given the treatment. I cried with laughter for 2’hours one day looking at them. They are tough to find. Ask someone for help or I can see if I can send you a link.

  94. Anonymous

    Garret

    Are you a 2 year old?

    Borganization a Pio-sneer CIRCUS Overseer an Eldress

    Do you think mispronouncing words like a two year old is actually funny? I laughed as I typed all of those words as my auto type tried to correct the spelling of it all.

  95. Garrett

    Anonymous…if you think that is funny…check this out ! You are in for a real treat!
    No longer just as use as a liner for the hamster cage…these mags can really make you laugh.
    I’m outa here girlie! Caulk up 2 hours field service that you spent with me…I hope you get to score a return visit.

    http://exjehovahswitnessforum.yuku.com/topic/17962/Some-Familiar-Publications-given-the-paint-job#.U9QoLdq9KSM

  96. Anonymous

    Garret you don’t even know what your talking about. Field service is meant to find people hungering for the truth. You’ve tasted the truth and spit it out. All of you have. So a return visit wouldn’t be necessary for you. And this wasnt service. Service isn’t about scoring points and the reason why they record all there hours is to keep a record of how much teaching is being done as a whole and what things need to be worked on. There out there witnessing because of there love for god not for “points” as you call them.

  97. Oh yeah? Did He choose Raymond Franz? IF so you should read his book “Crisis of Conscience” and see for yourself what happens when a member of the Governing Body comes clean.

    Doug

  98. You really are cracking me up Anon. Do you hear yourself?

  99. Again…you really are cracking me up. You don’t get me at all. I’m very proud of the fact that 7500 members joined in just over two years. They didn’t have that option until I went to the WordPress format which was February of 2012. I then didn’t start counting page views until February of 2013.

    I do like how good your math is though. Did you learn how to do that when turning in your field service reports?

  100. Governing Body.

  101. What you really are saying is that you read just enough to realize that this site isn’t at all flattering to the Watchtower leadership and as a result it triggered the “vomitus eruptus” that we’ve all been subjected to for most of the day.

    You placed us in the neat little box and started the standard JW path of enlightenment: Bully and bash and name call until people go home.

    Doug

  102. I agree. Those Watchtower covers are hysterically funny. I’ve seen them a few times.

  103. We laughed too.

  104. Oh to be young, inexperienced, haughty, and absolutely clueless again.

    They say ignorance is bliss so you must be the happiest person in your district.

  105. Skyhawk

    I do think you’re (not your, ‘your’ is possessive) misunderstanding Doug.

    It’s like, you came into the middle of an argument, not knowing how and about what the argument is, immediately took it personally, became emotionally upset and started an argument of a different nature.

    At the very least, your presence here has been like a bursting rocket of a myriad brilliant stars, lighting up the sky on a peaceful Fourth of July evening, and suddenly music started playing, though quite disturbing at times.

    After twenty-five years (I think that’s how many years), Doug now would like a relationship with God far away from the Watchtower Society.

    I was brought up a JW, from age eight to twenty-one, where upon I stopped being a JW. I simply did not feel it in my heart, in my entire being, that the Watchtower Society was for me. I obeyed my father, went through the motions of publishing, attending all the weekly meetings and the conventions when they were scheduled. Now at age seventy, I know I had made the right choice. I would have been miserable being a JW. I have not since attached my self to any religious organization. My church is within me where I commune with God. I am happy and at peace with myself, for through my life-long research and studies I have found the answers to my questions regarding the big picture that is life, the nature of God and my relationship with God and all of creation.

    When I was a boy I was taught the theme to the Bible: from paradise lost to paradise regained. I was also taught those who survived Armageddon will eternally live in a paradisal state, no more conflicts, just quiet peacefulness. But really, eternally in that state? I would eventually find it very boring with no purpose but to exist. This is a great idea if you find yourself fiscally challenged and need a dream and hope to egg you on living the life you have.

    I did not believe in Armageddon, they’ve been predicting when it was going to happen,1914, 1925, 1975, but still no Armageddon, nor did the Watchtower Society answer any of my questions.

    Perhaps being a JW is right for you for the while or for the duration of your life. And if one day you come to a certain realization about the Watchtower Society and decide to leave it, it was not for nothing. There were all that experience and learning. Simply take that fork in the road and go your merry way for the next adventure.

    You are at the beginning of your life where discovery is at every corner of a turn in your life, finding answers to your questions.

    Best wishes,

    Skyhawk

  106. Skyhawk

    Thanks Garrett.

    But don’t stop posting. I found your posts very intelligent and useful. We would find you amiss without your input here.

  107. Skyhawk

    Thanks Doug.

  108. Thank you for saying what needed to be said and so eloquently. Your years of experience have taught you much Skyhawk and they are, fortunately for me, teaching me as well.

    I’m working on being where you are. I’m fifty and I’m starting to sense my own mortality more and more as each year passes. However long God allows me to live I will thank Him for allowing me to be a part of this “awakening” process in so many Jehovah’s Witnesses.

    I used to think of my time in the JW’s as misspent. Now I realize that it was just part of a greater awakening in myself.

    I began writing more for my own reasons than any other. I would love to say it was some altruistic bent that afforded me the motivation to write about what was going on in my head but the fact is that I did it for purely selfish reasons at first. You see I never got to speak my mind or say my piece before I left. I wanted some closure and since I’ve left no JW’s want to have anything to do with me. That’s all well and good but there’s a tremendous amount of unfinished business that was left playing it’s inevitable reel in my head. I needed to tell my story and to leave something behind for others to read and possibly benefit from. That is what this blog is…a message to the masses about something that happened to me but not just me. To millions of others who have been in the JW’s and subsequently left.

    I can tell from your writing that you have a spirit of peace and love about you Skyhawk. I believe that is what Christ wanted for all of us.

    I thank you for being a part of this “experiment” and for bringing us all back to that middle road where we can walk without judgment, bitterness or malice.

    Your friend.

    Doug

  109. Andrew

    Doug:

    I give you a great deal of credit for realizing that your years as a Witness were not misspent. Those years and those experiences give you a perspective that you could not have otherwise had. That time spent, and those experiences that you had, as painful as they may have been, have given you the desire to help others and to simultaneously be able to empathize with those who are in the grip of this organization. You know what it is like to be trapped, and you know the agony of making the decision to separate yourself. That is why you can be so effective in helping others to make some very painful choices. Those who read your blog may be going through a journey that terrifies them. And knowing that you came through the very same ordeal with your sanity and humanity intact no doubt gives them added strength in making what seemed only a short time ago to be an impossibly difficult decision.

    When you told Skyhawk that Christ wants all of us to have a spirt of peace and love, I could not agree more. What is difficult to do as a Christian is to realize that this also applies to the person who has been posting recently as “Anonymous.” That person also needs to find that spirit of peace and love, and you must do what you can to help. They may have to separate themselves from the Watchtower to do it. Some can find it and stay, others must leave. I do not judge those who leave or those who stay. You have said as much in previous posts, and that is to your credit.

    I have been a Witness for over 35 years, and I have seen some get to the point where they must leave to have that spirit of peace and love. Others choose to remain, and quietly do their best to cultivate those qualities while keeping their objections to themselves, desperately hoping either for change, or at the very least, to be able to encourage others who are plagued with doubts to continue growing as a Christian, stuck in a place with (for the time being) no way out.

    I fall into the second category. I remain, hoping for serious change, but not naive enough to think that it will happen anytime soon, nor on account of anything I might do or say. I know literally hundreds of Witnesses with whom I have a very precious relationship, and they in turn have been an inspiration and a model for me. Together we share our thoughts and our innermost feelings, and meet privately for worship and encouragement when the control mechanisms of the organization become to difficult to face.

    Ray Franz (in his book In Search of Christian Freedom) said that he estimated that the percentage of Christians within the WT organization is about the same as other religions. I agree with him, but I am not the judge of anyone. I think Christ, who created a universe that we are only beginning to partially understand, can figure out who belongs to him. I wish you the best as you continue to maintain your blog. I think “Anonymous” is wrong. I think your blog helps more people that anyone, including yourself, realizes.

    Thank you for the hard work you put into this project. I maintain several web sites myself, and none of them takes nearly as much time as you no doubt spend on yours. God bless you !

    Andrew

  110. Garrett

    Andrew
    If you don’t mind me asking since you are still a witness….

    I left in 2009 out of principle. I didn’t live through the flip flop from 70-80 generation to “overlapping ” generation.

    I wish I could have been a fly on the wall in a hall at that time. You however can be that fly….

    Dies anybody believe that overlapping crap? Do people go along with it? Have many been stumbled as they were told the generation is just about gone?
    Has there been a waking up of witnesses? Is there anger at the GB because of this?

    Please expound. I would love to hear your observations . (You live in America also, right)

    Garrett

  111. Thank you for your kind words Andrew!

    God bless you as well in your quest for “the peace that excels all thought.”

    We’re all a work in progress aren’t we?

    Doug

  112. Garrett great questions!

    Andrew can be our “theocratic spy” on the inside!

    *I’m breaking out my secret decoder ring as I type!*

    All kidding aside, great questions!

    Doug

  113. Andrew

    Garrett:

    I don’t mind you asking at all. And yes, I live in America. In the past year or so, I have met only one Witness who actually believes the “overlapping” nonsense. And he is 90 years old, and trying to hang on until the new world comes. I don’t blame him for clinging to the organization. He has been a Witness for 81 years. At this point in his life, it would be too painful to lose his confidence in the organization. I do not judge him.

    Most Witnesses recognize that this new revelation is just another made up interpretation, and that it is bound to be changed again soon. The ironic thing is that if the GB came clean, and wrote that their understanding of the “generation” was incorrect, and that they really don’t know what it means, the vast majority of Witnesses would hail them for their humility and progressiveness. And most Witnesses would be pleased to announce that they really hadn’t believed it all along, and could take pride in being patient enough to “wait it out” until it was all made clear.

    Neither do I judge you for leaving out of principle. No doubt you agonized as you contemplated leaving, just as Doug and thousands of others have agonized, over the thought of losing contact with family and friends because of your decision. As you probably know, it is because of the reality of losing family and friends that keeps many Witnesses right where they are. The medieval shunning policy that the organization has in place is contemptible and completely contrary to what Christ taught, But it is effective in silencing dissent.

    It may surprise you to learn that most Witnesses recognize that the official shunning policy is wrong. They circumvent it regularly, particularly in the case of relatives. It proves that deep down, most Witnesses are really humane. The only ones who condone and enforce the policy are those who are in positions of authority, and who have no choice but to comply.

    As far as the Governing Body, there is an undercurrent of anger at them for presumptuously claimng the title of “faithful and discreet slave” exclusively for themselves. But what makes many Witnesses even more angry is several recent comments in the Watchtower that directly say that obedience to the Governing Body is necessary for salvation. Most Witnesses recognize that this goes directly against many Bible verses. They know that it is wrong, but most are too frightened to speak up.

    Andrew

  114. victoria

    To Andrew:

    Can you show the wacthower that article was in and the bible versus that is goes against?

  115. So it is worse than even I expected it to be. There’s a fork in the road for the governing body. To the right is to continue with the same authoritarian BS that they’ve always forced down the throats of the faithful. The other is to come completely clean and gut the organization in exchange for something new and pure.

    I think things are coming to a head and the WT faces an impending implosion of Biblical proportions!

    Doug

  116. Andrew

    Victoria:

    The one I was thinking about was this:

    “At that time, the life-saving direction that we receive from Jehovah’s organization may not appear practical from a human standpoint. All of us must be ready to obey any instructions we may receive,whether these appear sound from a strategic or human standpoint or not. (4) Now is the time for any who may be putting their trust in secular education, material things, or human institutions to adjust their thinking. The elders must stand ready to help any who may now be wavering in their faith.” WT – November 15, 2013, paragraph 17

    This is directly opposed to the scripture in Acts 5:29. “We must obey God as ruler rather than men.”

    Also Psalms 146:3:

    “Do not put your trust in princes
    Nor in a son of man, who cannot bring salvation.”

    “Life-saving direction” does not come from men. It comes from God and Christ.

    Andrew

  117. Garrett

    Those sick bastards in Brooklyn would have people drinking Jim Jones Cool Aid if it suits their purpose. Like any cult leader, they want complete, total control of very detail of everyone’s life. This will come to a very bad end for many as this cult crumbles and dies. There must be real confusion and dismay in the witness masses which leads to more judicial comitees, people leaving and personal problems. It’s like the titanic sinking… Stay on board … Everything is alright people!

  118. I’m reminded of the Animal House classic where Kevin Bacon is walking around screaming “All is well!” as mass panic and pandemonium was happening all around him.

    I’m so glad that I have already abandoned the SS Watchtower! You’ll find my new ship is quite comfortable. The SS Jesus Christ is the name. Destination? Heaven! Passengers? All are welcome and the admission is FREE to all who accept it!

    You don’t even have to WORK for your fare folks! Just BELIEVE!

    Doug

  119. victoria

    Andrew:

    You said obedience to the GB was what that watchtower was talking about. It’s talking about the elders.

    So what about this scripture when it says

    “Be obedient to those who are taking the lead among you and be submissive, for they are keeping watch over your souls.”—HEB. 13:17.

  120. Victoria

    As regards to disciplining

    What about this scripture
    Deuteronomy 22:18
    The city elders will take the man and discipline him.

  121. Garrett

    Victoria
    I don’t read the bible anymore. It is full of nonsense like Hebrews 13:17. ” Be submissive” ha! If I had a nickel for every time I saw that scrupture pulled out and used for personal power by elders.
    To follow it is to give a loaded shotgun to a monkey . You merely empower an idiot.
    I don’t think human beings should EVER be in subjection to another human being.
    Subjection means that one person is over another human being, a hierarchy .
    Look at thousands of hierarchy and people being in subjection or being put into subjection ….. How’s that workin out for ol planet earth?
    Use that scripture, apply that scripture, live by that scripture and you can go right into the next scripture “man has dominated man to his injury.
    Are we not all equal?

  122. Victoria

    Garret than I guess religion isn’t right for you.

  123. Garrett

    Definitely not !!!!!!
    I’ve traveled 48 countries to date.
    Religion suspends logical thought and gets people to do things that even a semi sane person would touch.

    Suicide bombers, sending kids into mine fields in Iran/Iraq war to detonate mines and telling them they will go straight to heaven, hundreds if years of the inquisition, Hindus burning their wives live in the funeral pyres with the dead husbands, Russell’s pyramids, the Amish not using technology, the American Indians hanging themselves from their flesh with hooks to appease spirits, the waste of good food as offerings to dead relatives in the Far East ……
    No thanks…. You’ll never catch me being “submissive” to any religious twit.

  124. Anonymous

    Andrew:

    What about these scriptures

    Galatians 6:1, 2
    6 Brothers, even if a man takes a false step before he is aware of it, you who have spiritual qualifications try to readjust such a man in a spirit of mildness.

    James 5:14, 15
    14 Is there anyone sick among you? Let him call the elders of the congregation to him, and let them pray over him, applying oil to him in the name of Jehovah
    Are you saying these men shouldn’t listen to the qualified ones in the congregation because you should obey god as ruler rather than men?

    as stated in the bible god put people who are qualified to help the people in the congregations.
    The only ones I know of who are qualified are elders, overseers the gb and those are the ones you have a problem with. Just like everyday life we have people who are head of us. With a job we have a boss. Students have teachers. Children have parents, cities have judges, police officers..

    As regards to the scriptures stated in Acts:5

    ..then the high priest questioned them 28 and said: “We strictly ordered you not to keep teaching on the basis of this name and yet look! you have filled Jerusalem with your teaching, and you are determined to bring the blood of this man upon us. 29 In answer Peter and the other apostles said: “We must obey God as ruler rather than men.

    There religious faith was in question. They wanted them to stop teaching there faith in the city. But that is what god ordered them to do. That scripture means when your faith and believes are put to the test obey god and not the ones putting it to test.

  125. Victoria

    Victoria* sorry didn’t put my name on last comment

  126. Victoria

    Andrew:

    With this scripture you stated
    Psalms 146:3:

    “Do not put your trust in princes
    Nor in a son of man, who cannot bring salvation

    Are you saying that the spiritual food god provides through the bible and through the magazines provided by the gb cannot bring salvation? You are basically saying that god himself cannot bring salvation.

    Matthew 24:45
    “Who really is the faithful and discreet slave whom his master appointed over his domestics, to give them their food at the proper time?

  127. Victoria

    And to the ones still in the congregation and talking badly about it. . You will do well to remember these points brought out in the bible

    2 Peter 2:1
    However, there also came to be false prophets among the people, as there will also be false teachers among you. These will quietly bring in destructive sects, and they will even disown the owner who bought them, bringing speedy destruction upon themselves.

    2 Timothy 3:4
    betrayers, headstrong, puffed up with pride, lovers of pleasures rather than lovers of God,

  128. There is only ONE name that grants salvation and it isn’t the Watchtower or their leaders or the magazines. It is Christ.

  129. As with most scriptures you can apply them in so many ways and at so many targets. I could see how the first scripture could be applied squarely at the founders of the Watchtower and their “descendants.”

  130. Victoria

    Psalm 62:1
    Indeed, I wait silently for God. My salvation comes from him.

  131. Victoria

    Psalm 62:7
    Upon God depends my salvation and my glory. My strong rock, my refuge, is God.

    Luke 3:6
    and all flesh will see the salvation of God.

  132. Anonymous

    Psalm 37:39
    The salvation of the righteous is from God; He is their fortress in the time of distress.

  133. Love the scriptures you’re dropping on us but is there some point to your “scripture bombing” here?

  134. Are you sure? Because it would seem to me and most of the people here that your salvation comes from the Watchtower leadership which is the equivalent to God for most JW’s.

  135. Skyhawk

    Doug –

    I have been and am much affected reading your blog the past two days, when Anonymous presented herself through her posts, self-righteously, blindingly calling you a hateful, immature man.

    Immature, hateful? Ha! If she could just see herself from the view of others, my view. But such callousness, such energy is due to youth’s inexperience and ignorance. But beneath her turbulent surface is, strangely for me, a likeable young lass.

    Reading your blog closely the past few days has given me greater insight your situation and I feel and imagine your agony to have been up-rooted from a life you’ve lived for a long while, leaving relationships of close friends that are like your extended family, to be re-rooted in an environment whose values and views alien to yours. I know that experience, though without the emotional, spiritual turbulence you surely had or are experiencing, now slowly fading.

    One thing I have never lost these forty-nine years since leaving the Watchtower Society, that feeling of not belonging anywhere. I am in the world but not of the world, even more so today, now that I realize how this planet operates. Everywhere you turn we are being manipulated through the print media, glossy magazine pictures of physically beautiful people subliminally telling you how to be and behave.

    Television is a very dangerous medium. You never know what subliminal messages are being projected. They can and are transmitting extra low frequency to keep the people in certain emotional status. Frequency Hertz between 3 and six (I forget the exact numbers) will make one depressed. Frequency Hertz in the 7-9 range (again I forget the exact ratio) will make one feel happy and joyous. I digress.

    It took a college education to know, understand the world I knew nothing about growing up a JW. It was like living, growing up in an enclosed, separate environment from the larger world with different sets of values and behavior patterns.

    What sustains me, giving me purpose and goals to keep is my personal relationship with God (I don’t use the name Jehovah, that is the Watchtower). I meditate and commune with God, and I come out of the meditation feeling serene, peaceful, wonderful. I never had that feeling attending the meetings or when publishing. My understanding about the nature of God and that big picture of all life keeps growing with added knowledge and understanding. Everything you want to know is within oneself. Ask and it shall be yours. All knowledge is all around us.

    Yes, these past few days, reading your blog, your posts, have given me a clearer understanding, a good glimpse of your situation, and tears would roll down my face imagining your plight. Just keep believing in your self, forming newer goals and try to forgive, if you haven’t already.

    I believe all religion is designed to control and manipulate the masses for the sake of money and power. It’s a huge business. I read the Watchtower Society’s annual net (they don’t pay tax) is nine hundred fifty million dollars ($950,000,000). That kind of an amount must include their investments.

    I am reasonably sure the congregation you were with have read or read your blog.

    I shall think of you, Doug, in my meditations and send you light of joy and healing.

    Kind regards,

    Skyhawk

  136. Thank you for your kindness Skyhawk!

    God bless you in your walk with Him!

    Doug

  137. Skyhawk,

    I meditate too. I have for many years although I don’t practice it daily. It clears my mind and allows me to dispel the negativity that I’m subjected to on a fairly regular basis. I have rooted out most of the negative things in my life and I only allow positive, peaceful and loving people and ideas into my space.

    I believe that we create our own lives one thought at a time. The longer I live the more I see it. Every day is a new adventure for me and writing on this blog has given me the confidence and power to move forward in such a positive manner with regard to my job, my relationships and my belief in God.

    I believe that this is what Christ taught and that everything He did or said was the epitome of love and peace.

    I heard this song the other day and it reminded me of you. I like this one a lot.

  138. zeb

    You mentioned tv and its influence. Any wonder in Australia its referred to as the “idiot-box”.

  139. We call it the same thing here in America.

  140. Skyhawk

    Thanks a bunch Doug!

    That is such a wonderful song and a heart- moving video.

    I love country music along with jazz, Classical, Baroque and Opera, though I seldom listen to Classical, Baroque or Opera anymore, only when I was in college. But I do not like rap or the current popular music being produced today.

    I’m not familiar with the singer in the video but I sure will look him up. He sings with so much heart.

    Alas, though I am seventy, I sense and have an inner knowing I have many more years on Earth. I can easily pass for a guy in his early fifties. My mustache has a lot of Grey which I color and my side burns are grey which I don’t color, the rest of my hair is still black. I took extra good care of myself while in my twenties and thirties. Never smoked, grass now and then, no alcohol till my late thirties. I am in excellent health and have never gotten sick.

    The last time I got the flu was January 1968. Being so far away from home with no one to care for me if I should get sick, I quickly learned how the body functioned and how best to nourish it: raw fruits and vegetables, fish and chicken, a lot of fresh, raw vegetable juices which I juice myself, plus keeping the colon clean. I used to fast every three months for seven days, no solid foods but took food supplements and lots of liquids in the form of fresh, raw vegetable juices during the fast. I am my own doctor.

    I left home when I got drafted into the US Army, August 1965 at the peak of the Vietnam war and spent all but two weeks of it at Fort Sam Houston. I was classified as a Conscientious Objector, and Fort Sam Houston is where they send you for Basic Training. They were one of the best two years of my life.

    After I was released from active duty, August 1967, I drove cross country from Fort Sam Houston (San Anyonio, Texas) to Boston, Massachusetts where I’ve lived till a couple years ago and moved up to Vermont where I now am.

    I never went back to Hawaii, where I grew up, since my leaving for the Army in 1965.

    A few months before being released from active duty I decided to not go back to Hawaii. So I asked myself where shall I go? Intuitively Boston came to mind. So Boston it was. At twenty-two , almost twenty-three, it didn’t occur to me to do any research on Boston. With one hundred-fifty dollars in my pocket I drove to Boston. When I got to Boston, I felt very much at home. I loved it! Hawaii is beautiful with a great climate, but it didn’t have the comfortable feel Boston had for me. It is an Irish city and I immediately loved the Irish. I found them very much down to Earth and in general, a very good-looking group.

    I am of Eurasian ancestry: one-quarter Irish, one-half Scots, one-quarter Japanese, clean-cut regular features, blue-black slightly wavy hair, deep, dark blue eyes.

    Eurasians are common in Hawaii, a true melting pot.

    Regards,

    Skyhawk

  141. Skyhawk

    Hi Zeb!

    Yes, I’ve heard that term mentioned from time-to-time here in the U.S. but not lately.

  142. Ed

    I am writing in haste and only quickly read posts as i prepared to start my day. Andrew, Garrett, most JW’s do not keep current with GB changes or flip-flop teachings. They do not have a clue. They read WT & Awake mags, attend meetings and continue to blindly drink cool-aide. Re. Anonymous: She is in the honeymoon of relationship. In time she will see the hypocrisy and problems from within. Show her the kindness and love Jesus would. Forgive her for she knows not what she does.. or says.

  143. Ed

    “..that is only a few WT & Awake mags read. Most end up in the trash or under door mats, collect on bookcases, book bags then tossed in the trash when outdated. How many printed? majority never read and fill trash bins year after year. Contribution: “to cover cost of printing” Minimal collected, money comes from JW’s picking up at KH and donating out of obligation. That is the truth my friends!

  144. Nothing to forgive Ed! She’s who we were at one time. I rather enjoy her typical JW responses. The verbal fencing is somewhat stimulating. :)

  145. That IS the truth for sure!

  146. zeb

    Ed: Very true. I recall on my early days ‘in’ Entering fellow jw homes to not see a single book other than wts copy. There was the occasional ‘womens’ magazine but nothing else and never a newspaper.
    Ed: and Jesus would have met those of the Jewish thought who were on their ‘honeymoon’ of learning.
    Doug: yes what we once were but thankfully I can say I was never belligerent as so many jw are if their beliefs are challenged.

  147. Dear anon on the 25th July you stated that you were leaving the conversation …. Shouldn’t your yes mean yes and your no mean no …. Also why are you on social media after the warning from the FDS about not engaging in the use of social media in case it leads you astray ????

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